Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

This kind of tit-4-tat arguments will not get us anywhere....The past 50 years have proven that...When a couple have a terrible argument and split up,and the weaker side takes refuge with his/her big brother,and nothing has been done to address the bitterness and resentment following the original split,what chance is there of a reunion if the stronger side keeps saying "lets forget everything that happened in the past,look i have built a nice house while you were away,and I am now a member of a very nice rich club,just come back and all will be well...."???? If you were the weaker side,and if your partner kept telling you all was your fault anyway,shows no remorse whatsoever,and refuses to go to counselling or anger management or any other process of conciliation,would you just pack your bags and return????? This is what the GCs have to seriously think about now...Try to put yourselves in the TC shoes and honestly answer this question....In this simple analogy lies the essence to the CYprob solution....For those who really want a solution that is...

[Malapapa]

This kind of tit-4-tat arguments will not get us anywhere....The past 50 years have proven that...When a couple have a terrible argument and split up,and the weaker side takes refuge with his/her big brother,and nothing has been done to address the bitterness and resentment following the original split,what chance is there of a reunion if the stronger side keeps saying "lets forget everything that happened in the past,look i have built a nice house while you were away,and I am now a member of a very nice rich club,just come back and all will be well...."???? If you were the weaker side,and if your partner kept telling you all was your fault anyway,shows no remorse whatsoever,and refuses to go to counselling or anger management or any other process of conciliation,would you just pack your bags and return????? This is what the GCs have to seriously think about now...Try to put yourselves in the TC shoes and honestly answer this question....In this simple analogy lies the essence to the CYprob solution....For those who really want a solution that is...

This isn't a tit for tat argument; at least not on my part. This is a cold and objective analysis of the position on the part of those free from big brother's clutches. You see TCs didn't seek refugee away with big brother; big brother moved in upstairs and there's no way he's budging. In fact, if we're not careful, the bully will have the run of the whole house, the downstairs of which has been adjusted into a modern, comfortable home.

I have tried putting myself in TCs shoes; not of two generations ago but now; the ones big brother's bought for them. And the design's ugly, they're cheap, plastic, tight and painful. And there's not much I can do except make sure no one else in the house has to wear them. And use all legal means to bring big brother to account.

[BirKibrisli]

This kind of tit-4-tat arguments will not get us anywhere....The past 50 years have proven that...When a couple have a terrible argument and split up,and the weaker side takes refuge with his/her big brother,and nothing has been done to address the bitterness and resentment following the original split,what chance is there of a reunion if the stronger side keeps saying "lets forget everything that happened in the past,look i have built a nice house while you were away,and I am now a member of a very nice rich club,just come back and all will be well...."???? If you were the weaker side,and if your partner kept telling you all was your fault anyway,shows no remorse whatsoever,and refuses to go to counselling or anger management or any other process of conciliation,would you just pack your bags and return????? This is what the GCs have to seriously think about now...Try to put yourselves in the TC shoes and honestly answer this question....In this simple analogy lies the essence to the CYprob solution....For those who really want a solution that is...

This isn't a tit for tat argument; at least not on my part. This is a cold and objective analysis of the position on the part of those free from big brother's clutches. You see TCs didn't seek refugee away with big brother; big brother moved in upstairs and there's no way he's budging. In fact, if we're not careful, the bully will have the run of the whole house, the downstairs of which has been adjusted into a modern, comfortable home.

I have tried putting myself in TCs shoes; not of two generations ago but now; the ones big brother's bought for them. And the design's ugly, they're cheap, plastic, tight and painful. And there's not much I can do except make sure no one else in the house has to wear them. And use all legal means to bring big brother to account.

You have avoided answering the crutial question,MP...If your partner refuses to take a look at the original problems,and keeps insisting that you have just run away because you want your big brother to come and take over the house,keeps blaming you for everything that has gone wrong for all time,refusues to show remorse and go to counselling with you,would you trust him and return???

[Viewpoint]

Malapapa

Hardly.... I'm pointing out I have no personal vested interest, clouding my judgement. Nor loss. Nor guilt. Nor responsibility.

Then you have nothing to do with Cyprus or the Cyprus problem, do you even live here on the island?

I figured that out a while ago with Turkey involved. Getting billions out of Turkey and keeping it out of the EU is the next best thing. And the legal owners of property in the north remain the legal owners.

Do you worst if it makes you feel good, but dont critisize when others from the north do the same.

The courts.

The key is not the label but the content of that court? will it be GCs or TCs, would you feel a fair justice system if every one was TC?

[Malapapa]

Then you have nothing to do with Cyprus or the Cyprus problem, do you even live here on the island?

Yes I do. And no.

I figured that out a while ago with Turkey involved. Getting billions out of Turkey and keeping it out of the EU is the next best thing. And the legal owners of property in the north remain the legal owners.

Do you worst if it makes you feel good, but dont critisize when others from the north do the same.

I am from the north. And I certainly won't criticise.

The key is not the label but the content of that court? will it be GCs or TCs, would you feel a fair justice system if every one was TC?

It will be European. And subject to European laws.

[Malapapa]

You have avoided answering the crutial question,MP...If your partner refuses to take a look at the original problems,and keeps insisting that you have just run away because you want your big brother to come and take over the house,keeps blaming you for everything that has gone wrong for all time,refusues to show remorse and go to counselling with you,would you trust him and return???

I don't believe this is the case. I personally have examined the recent history of Cyprus very carefully. I don't insist TCs have 'just run away', nor do I believe TCs want their big brother to take over the whole house. I don't blame the TCs for everything that has gone wrong; far from it. They are pawns. Then and now. I sympathise with the TCs but...

http://cyprus-forum.com/cyprus27934.html

I, personally, have nothing to show remorse for, nor have the majority of Cypriots today – who weren't yet born, who were too young to be involved, or who weren't even there. I (and they) don't need counselling for this. I can appreciate why TCs may not have trust (who does?) and may not wish to return. I'm not asking them to do either.

[BirKibrisli]

You have avoided answering the crutial question,MP...If your partner refuses to take a look at the original problems,and keeps insisting that you have just run away because you want your big brother to come and take over the house,keeps blaming you for everything that has gone wrong for all time,refusues to show remorse and go to counselling with you,would you trust him and return???

I don't believe this is the case. I personally have examined the recent history of Cyprus very carefully. I don't insist TCs have 'just run away', nor do I believe TCs want their big brother to take over the whole house. I don't blame the TCs for everything that has gone wrong; far from it. They are pawns. Then and now. I sympathise with the TCs but...

http://cyprus-forum.com/cyprus27934.html

I, personally, have nothing to show remorse for, nor have the majority of Cypriots today – who weren't yet born, who were too young to be involved, or who weren't even there. I (and they) don't need counselling for this. I can appreciate why TCs may not have trust (who does?) and may not wish to return. I'm not asking them to do either.

Historical events cannot be dismissed like that,MP...Both sides have a lot of issues to deal with...If we want to find a lasting solution....I am beginning to suspect neither side wants a solution other than partition...
Otherwise there would ahve been efforts to build trust and understanding...for a long time I thought it was just the TCs who wanted the status quo to continue...Now i think the GCs want the same thing...Just making ambit claims to get the best deal possible...for 48 years the GCs held the strings of power on their own...Nothing has been done to help reunification...This forum isn in way a reflection of what has been happening in real life for all these years....Insults,blind prejudice,all sorts of accusations,from both sides...I am losing hope that we are able to find a solution...

[Viewpoint]

Malapapa

Yes I do. And no.

You think you do but our whole response critique reveals otherwise you are distant from the realities and think that the past has no influence over the future. This means you have learned nothing and will repeat past mistakes taking us into more dangerous grounds. No one will buy I was not to blame so I will not pay the price, your people are to blame and you are and will continue to pay the price unless you show the tolerance and understanding leading to compromise to reunite the island if that's what you really support.

It will be European. And subject to European laws.

Your not really answering the question so ill try it another way you are happy to enter a court and be served justice by an all TC court in a language you do not understand as long as you can call it EU law?

Its not the recipe I'm questioning but the chef and how he put the ingredients together.

[Malapapa]

Historical events cannot be dismissed like that,MP...

Which is why the EU was established, after two world wars which decimated the whole continent - to ensure such a war could never happen again. And Cyprus is a part of it now. To escape imperialism, invasion, facism, occupation, ethnic cleansing and all the other historical events that have blighted its history.

Both sides have a lot of issues to deal with...If we want to find a lasting solution....I am beginning to suspect neither side wants a solution other than partition...

Any solution offered to Cypriots free from domination by Turkey must be better than what they have now, or they will not accept it. Why would they? Why would anyone? Would you?

Otherwise there would ahve been efforts to build trust and understanding...for a long time I thought it was just the TCs who wanted the status quo to continue...Now i think the GCs want the same thing...

If the status quo is the best option on offer, then of course the status quo will continue.

Just making ambit claims to get the best deal possible...for 48 years the GCs held the strings of power on their own...Nothing has been done to help reunification...This forum isn in way a reflection of what has been happening in real life for all these years....Insults,blind prejudice,all sorts of accusations,from both sides...I am losing hope that we are able to find a solution...

Now that Cyprus is in the EU, individuals will need to secure their own solution as best they can.

[Malapapa]

You think you do but our whole response critique reveals otherwise you are distant from the realities and think that the past has no influence over the future. This means you have learned nothing and will repeat past mistakes

Now that Cypriots are safely in the EU no way will they repeat the mistake of having foreign powers interfere in their domestic affairs and/or "guarantee" their island's territorial integrity.

taking us into more dangerous grounds. No one will buy I was not to blame so I will not pay the price, your people are to blame

I am innocent until proven guilty. Innocent people cannot be punished for the crimes of others. No one will buy this in the civilised world.

Your not really answering the question so ill try it another way you are happy to enter a court and be served justice by an all TC court in a language you do not understand as long as you can call it EU law?

Its not the recipe I'm questioning but the chef and how he put the ingredients together.

If the TC judge was an EU citizen, qualified in accordance with EU norms, and operating in accordance with EU law, then on what basis could I object? If I wasn't happy with proceedings, then I would have the opportunity to appeal.