[quote]Greek MEP says Turkish Cypriots are no more than 'minority'
A Greek member of the European Parliament has raised objections to accepting Turkish Cypriots as an equal partner to Greek Cypriots on the island, saying it would be more appropriate to consider them a "minority."
Georgios Karatzaferis, a member of the Independence/Democracy Group, criticized the European Commission in a written question for what he called a "racist attitudes towards the majority of the inhabitants of Cyprus [Greek Cypriots]."
Criticizing the Commission's efforts to ease the isolation of Turkish Cypriots, Karatzaferis said, "Turks in Cyprus are designated as a 'community' -- rather than a 'minority,' as would be more appropriate -- occupying 37 percent of the territory of a European Union member state while, under the rejected Annan plan, they would have received 29.2 percent."
The latest attempt to re-unite the island failed in 2004 when Greek Cypriots overwhelmingly voted "no" to an internationally backed peace plan, the Annan plan. Turkish Cypriots approved the plan, which envisaged a new partnership state of Turkish and Greek Cypriots to become an EU member. Despite their disapproval of the plan, the southern Greek Cypriot administration joined the EU in 2004 while European leaders promised to remove the isolation of Northern Cyprus and to continue supporting peace and reunification efforts.
The Commission has prepared two regulations to launch direct aid and trade with Northern Cyprus, but the Greek Cypriot administration made strong efforts to block them.
Karatzaferis criticized EU efforts to ease the isolation of Turkish Cypriots and ironically described them as "racist attitudes towards the majority of the inhabitants of Cyprus."
In a written question to the European Commission, the Greek MEP said:
"The 750,000 Greeks living on Cyprus who were the victims of the Turkish invasion of 1974 constitute the overwhelming majority [82 percent] of the island's population, only 9 percent being made up of Turkish Cypriots and another 9 percent of Turkish settlers. Despite this, Turks in Cyprus are designated as a 'community' [rather than a 'minority,' as would be more appropriate], occupying 37 percent of the territory of an EU Member State while, under the rejected Annan plan, they would have received 29.2 percent."
He went on to ask, "Is there any EU country in which 9 percent of the population has succeeded in declaring itself a 'community'?
"In which other EU member state does 9 percent of the population occupy 29 percent of the territory, as provided for under the [profoundly racist and divisive] Annan plan?"
The Greek MEP later asked,
"In what other EU member state is freedom of establishment and the right to acquire property prohibited as under the monstrous Annan plan, which seeks the racist segregation of the inhabitants of Cyprus? Why does the EU not come forward with a proposal based on democratic and established European practice, given the reluctance shown by the United Nations over the last two years to engage in any debate on the substance of the problem?"[/quote]
Finally, someone addressing the EU logically over TCs ridiculous claims that they are not a minority. I fully agree with the Greek MEP and hopefully we will get a much fairer solution proposal this time round.
Turkish Cypriots are no more than a minority
Turkish Cypriots are no more than a minority
by Simon » Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:40 pm
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by Kikapu » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:37 pm
raymanuva wrote:sure, i agree 100%... TC are a minority, and they should treat any RoC proposal as a precious gift
The word "gift" in German means "poison". Don't expect the TC's to take any poison from the ROC any time soon.!!
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by reportfromcyprus » Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:27 pm
It's this kind of thinking that destroys countries. I abhor the kind of supercilious attitude that designates anyone as 'just a minority'. Who does he think he is?
What if the Germans were to say that the Greeks are 'just a minority' relative to their population numbers?
It makes nonsense of the idea of human rights and the idea of equality. And don't get all nationalist on me, I'm talking about all people's human rights, GC, TC - everyones'.
What if the Germans were to say that the Greeks are 'just a minority' relative to their population numbers?
It makes nonsense of the idea of human rights and the idea of equality. And don't get all nationalist on me, I'm talking about all people's human rights, GC, TC - everyones'.
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by Apollonios » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:00 pm
Karajaferis is the president of the party Laos witch is it something between Nazi party and Hezbollah (god party), they believe what the Greeks is super race from the outer space and what Jesus was Greek and many other bullshits.
They are the same as the gray wolfs in Turkey but worst in their theories.
The TC’s are no longer minority and only a stupid or a mad man (like the above) can say something like that.
They continued to be a minority even after EOKA were it was the first Greek nationalistic movement who rejected them from the fight and after when they’ve started to killing them.
Before EOKA the two communities were fighting together against the British ruling and after EOKA mistakes we’ve empowered the Takism plan.
EOKA have killed a TC police officer when they knew what the TC minority will go against them, after the first knife in the relations of the two communities a second knife come by the second killing of a TC police officer.
Even if the TC police officer was sow bud the murder of a Cypriot citizen who made him job was not only a crime but also a big mistake, when we didn’t give them any chance to fight in our side.
Even if we had a small number of TC’s in EOKA the result was going to be different, not only we’ve throw them in the trash basket but also we started to kill them.
After the mess WE’ve fired up a lot of events happens and many mistakes from both sides were lead us in the Zurich plan were Makarios accept it.
In the Zurich plan the TC’s was a minority with some guarantees what we will not throw them out like in the Crete example and the whole philosophy of the plan was based in the nationalistic madness from both sides were actually started from our side.
The second big nationalistic bomb come also from our side in the stupid Akritas plan were ALL in ALL over the world they had started to speaking about two communities and a federation or unification with Greece to avoid a war between Turkey and Greece.
The Americans and the NATO was giving us a unification solution (like the Atcenson plan) because they wanted the stability on the area and to have their ally’s on NATO Turkey and Greece both satisfied. The destruction of the NATO efforts to found a solution was from our side were we had a stupid religious leader were no one actually know what he wanted, most probably he was just a racist who wanted to get rid off the TC’s and keep his political power and this is the most logical explanation.
The above example of the fascist politician can’t do any good to our side and only a total stupid can see something like that.
Makarios made a lot of foolish things and his relations with NATO and UN was going from worst to worst.
After the failure of the Acheson plan he tried to involve the USSR in a matter of NATO and the Russians offer us for exchange a federation with two communities witch it was the most logical solution after the unification with Greece.
Another example was back at 1966 he was supplied with arms ILLIGAL from Czechoslovakia to build his own personal army with out informing the UN or Greece and NATO.
Back then(1966) the Greek newspaper Hellenic North (Ellinikos Voras) the Estia and some other newspapers was warning the Cypriot peoples for the Makarios actions like this:
Greece is not the church of Kikkos to let Makarios to do what ever he wants, send him back with a warning to the Cypriot people because of his policy it’s possible what the Americans (with the British agreement) will call the Turks to invade in the island. Because is stupid and ridiculous every one who things what the Americans will let Cyprus to become the Cuba of Mediterranean.
I’m just saying all this to stop accusing the foreigners for our mistakes because no one will ever going to take us seriously.
The Americans and the British are not from heaven but our economy is based on their support (only by thinking the fact that over 200 000 GC was worked in England) and if they wanted we will never be able to be a EU member, the only reason why they have made us a member of Europe is to solve the Cyprus problem and to give the passport to Turkey to be a member of EU also. Witch we had actually give them by the congratulations of Mr Papadopoulos.
We are not alone in the world and if we want to have rights and wealth we must also understand our responsibility because I have to warn the Cypriot people (like Hellenic North did) what we have paid and we will paid as it seems our 4in1 mistake (hope no 5in1).
1 EOKA big fighters who create the mess
2 Akritas big fighters who made the division and update the TC’s to community.
3 Makarios great leader and big fighter of the world wide political game.
4 EOKA B big fighters of enosis.
1 When ever tried to play the strong guy, the fighter (to palikari) we had paid the price.
They are the same as the gray wolfs in Turkey but worst in their theories.
The TC’s are no longer minority and only a stupid or a mad man (like the above) can say something like that.
They continued to be a minority even after EOKA were it was the first Greek nationalistic movement who rejected them from the fight and after when they’ve started to killing them.
Before EOKA the two communities were fighting together against the British ruling and after EOKA mistakes we’ve empowered the Takism plan.
EOKA have killed a TC police officer when they knew what the TC minority will go against them, after the first knife in the relations of the two communities a second knife come by the second killing of a TC police officer.
Even if the TC police officer was sow bud the murder of a Cypriot citizen who made him job was not only a crime but also a big mistake, when we didn’t give them any chance to fight in our side.
Even if we had a small number of TC’s in EOKA the result was going to be different, not only we’ve throw them in the trash basket but also we started to kill them.
After the mess WE’ve fired up a lot of events happens and many mistakes from both sides were lead us in the Zurich plan were Makarios accept it.
In the Zurich plan the TC’s was a minority with some guarantees what we will not throw them out like in the Crete example and the whole philosophy of the plan was based in the nationalistic madness from both sides were actually started from our side.
The second big nationalistic bomb come also from our side in the stupid Akritas plan were ALL in ALL over the world they had started to speaking about two communities and a federation or unification with Greece to avoid a war between Turkey and Greece.
The Americans and the NATO was giving us a unification solution (like the Atcenson plan) because they wanted the stability on the area and to have their ally’s on NATO Turkey and Greece both satisfied. The destruction of the NATO efforts to found a solution was from our side were we had a stupid religious leader were no one actually know what he wanted, most probably he was just a racist who wanted to get rid off the TC’s and keep his political power and this is the most logical explanation.
The above example of the fascist politician can’t do any good to our side and only a total stupid can see something like that.
Makarios made a lot of foolish things and his relations with NATO and UN was going from worst to worst.
After the failure of the Acheson plan he tried to involve the USSR in a matter of NATO and the Russians offer us for exchange a federation with two communities witch it was the most logical solution after the unification with Greece.
Another example was back at 1966 he was supplied with arms ILLIGAL from Czechoslovakia to build his own personal army with out informing the UN or Greece and NATO.
Back then(1966) the Greek newspaper Hellenic North (Ellinikos Voras) the Estia and some other newspapers was warning the Cypriot peoples for the Makarios actions like this:
Greece is not the church of Kikkos to let Makarios to do what ever he wants, send him back with a warning to the Cypriot people because of his policy it’s possible what the Americans (with the British agreement) will call the Turks to invade in the island. Because is stupid and ridiculous every one who things what the Americans will let Cyprus to become the Cuba of Mediterranean.
I’m just saying all this to stop accusing the foreigners for our mistakes because no one will ever going to take us seriously.
The Americans and the British are not from heaven but our economy is based on their support (only by thinking the fact that over 200 000 GC was worked in England) and if they wanted we will never be able to be a EU member, the only reason why they have made us a member of Europe is to solve the Cyprus problem and to give the passport to Turkey to be a member of EU also. Witch we had actually give them by the congratulations of Mr Papadopoulos.
We are not alone in the world and if we want to have rights and wealth we must also understand our responsibility because I have to warn the Cypriot people (like Hellenic North did) what we have paid and we will paid as it seems our 4in1 mistake (hope no 5in1).
1 EOKA big fighters who create the mess
2 Akritas big fighters who made the division and update the TC’s to community.
3 Makarios great leader and big fighter of the world wide political game.
4 EOKA B big fighters of enosis.
1 When ever tried to play the strong guy, the fighter (to palikari) we had paid the price.
- Apollonios
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by Piratis » Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:59 pm
Minorities/majorities exists when you are trying to divide people into separate groups. Having a majority in something is only useful for the function of democracy in a country, since democracies function on the "majority rule" principle. However what you vote for, and what you are in terms of race, color, religion, language etc should have no impact on the way you are seen and treated.
It is not necessary to split Cypriots into different groups, we can have just equal Cypriot citizens and nothing more. No majority or minority would exist apart from the time that one would be needed to be formed for a president to be elected.
Unfortunately some insist into dividing Cypriots into groups. TCs and GCs. In this case, the TC group is made by 18% of population and the GC group into 82% of the population. If we are forced to have something other than "just equal citizens" and "one man one vote" and we have to go with "groups", then each group should get what proportionally belongs to them according to their population.
One example, similar to what I gave in another thread:
Say there are 100 positions in the government and 1000 Cypriots (it doesn't matter what kind of Cypriots) that want those 100 positions. If they are treated as equal individuals then each one of them has 100/1000 (1/10) chance of getting the job.
Now lets say we are forced to divide Cypriots into groups. TCs are 18% but for this example I will round it up to 20%. So now we have those 100 positions and there are 800 GCs (the 80%) and 200 TCs (the 20%) that want those positions. In order to maintain the equality among people, then GCs should receive the 80 jobs, so each one among them will still have 1/10 of getting that job, and TCs should take the 20 jobs, so again each one among them will have 1/10 chance of getting that job. This is what is fair in the case we are forced (like we are) to split people into groups instead of considering them as one Cypriot group.
If now some have the misconception that "equality of communities" means that TCs should get 50 of those 100 jobs, then that would result in a very unfair racist discrimination against GCs. IF that happens then each TC will have 50/200 (1/4) chance of getting a job, while each GC will have 50/800 (1/16) of getting the same job. Is that fair???
The same goes for everything, from land share to power sharing, to governmental positions etc. If we have to split people into groups, then each group should receive what proportionately belongs to it. Taking more than that (and therefore forcing the rest to take less) would create huge inequalities among the Cypriot citizens which would be based on racist discrimination, something which is totally unacceptable.
What equality of communities should mean, is that Greek and Turkish Cypriots will be treated in the same way, that Turkish and Greek will be both official languages, that both religions will be equal for the state, and that all citizens will have equal opportunities for everything regardless of their ethnic background. It shouldn't mean that TCs should gain on the loss of GCs by taking disproportionately more (positions,land,power etc) than what belongs to them.
It is not necessary to split Cypriots into different groups, we can have just equal Cypriot citizens and nothing more. No majority or minority would exist apart from the time that one would be needed to be formed for a president to be elected.
Unfortunately some insist into dividing Cypriots into groups. TCs and GCs. In this case, the TC group is made by 18% of population and the GC group into 82% of the population. If we are forced to have something other than "just equal citizens" and "one man one vote" and we have to go with "groups", then each group should get what proportionally belongs to them according to their population.
One example, similar to what I gave in another thread:
Say there are 100 positions in the government and 1000 Cypriots (it doesn't matter what kind of Cypriots) that want those 100 positions. If they are treated as equal individuals then each one of them has 100/1000 (1/10) chance of getting the job.
Now lets say we are forced to divide Cypriots into groups. TCs are 18% but for this example I will round it up to 20%. So now we have those 100 positions and there are 800 GCs (the 80%) and 200 TCs (the 20%) that want those positions. In order to maintain the equality among people, then GCs should receive the 80 jobs, so each one among them will still have 1/10 of getting that job, and TCs should take the 20 jobs, so again each one among them will have 1/10 chance of getting that job. This is what is fair in the case we are forced (like we are) to split people into groups instead of considering them as one Cypriot group.
If now some have the misconception that "equality of communities" means that TCs should get 50 of those 100 jobs, then that would result in a very unfair racist discrimination against GCs. IF that happens then each TC will have 50/200 (1/4) chance of getting a job, while each GC will have 50/800 (1/16) of getting the same job. Is that fair???
The same goes for everything, from land share to power sharing, to governmental positions etc. If we have to split people into groups, then each group should receive what proportionately belongs to it. Taking more than that (and therefore forcing the rest to take less) would create huge inequalities among the Cypriot citizens which would be based on racist discrimination, something which is totally unacceptable.
What equality of communities should mean, is that Greek and Turkish Cypriots will be treated in the same way, that Turkish and Greek will be both official languages, that both religions will be equal for the state, and that all citizens will have equal opportunities for everything regardless of their ethnic background. It shouldn't mean that TCs should gain on the loss of GCs by taking disproportionately more (positions,land,power etc) than what belongs to them.
Last edited by Piratis on Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by MR-from-NG » Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:18 am
sure, i agree 100%... TC are a minority, and they should treat any RoC proposal as a precious gift
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.
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by Simon » Sat Aug 12, 2006 1:33 am
Piratis I fully agree with you.
It makes me laugh when TCs state that they are not a minority, but yet this does not suprise me
You will be telling me the sky is pink tomorrow.
However, I do believe that people get confused on this issue. Being in a minority does not mean that you will get any less rights as an individual. All that it is merely saying is that the population of Cyprus has significantly less TCs than GCs; and therefore any power-sharing agreement should reflect this. Is that so unreasonable? This is proportionality and democracy.
If the TCs answer to this question is yes it is unreasonable to expect proportionality in power-sharing, then all future negotiations are futile in that case and Cyprus should just be formally split 80/20. Even this is generous considering that according to MEP Karatzaferis only 9% of the inhabitants of Cyprus are truly TCs. I wonder how many people on this forum are true TCs
It makes me laugh when TCs state that they are not a minority, but yet this does not suprise me
You will be telling me the sky is pink tomorrow.
However, I do believe that people get confused on this issue. Being in a minority does not mean that you will get any less rights as an individual. All that it is merely saying is that the population of Cyprus has significantly less TCs than GCs; and therefore any power-sharing agreement should reflect this. Is that so unreasonable? This is proportionality and democracy.
If the TCs answer to this question is yes it is unreasonable to expect proportionality in power-sharing, then all future negotiations are futile in that case and Cyprus should just be formally split 80/20. Even this is generous considering that according to MEP Karatzaferis only 9% of the inhabitants of Cyprus are truly TCs. I wonder how many people on this forum are true TCs
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by Kifeas » Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:47 am
Apollonios wrote:Karajaferis is the president of the party Laos witch is it something between Nazi party and Hezbollah (god party), they believe what the Greeks is super race from the outer space and what Jesus was Greek and many other bullshits.
They are the same as the gray wolfs in Turkey but worst in their theories.
The TC’s are no longer minority and only a stupid or a mad man (like the above) can say something like that.
They continued to be a minority even after EOKA were it was the first Greek nationalistic movement who rejected them from the fight and after when they’ve started to killing them.
Before EOKA the two communities were fighting together against the British ruling and after EOKA mistakes we’ve empowered the Takism plan.
EOKA have killed a TC police officer when they knew what the TC minority will go against them, after the first knife in the relations of the two communities a second knife come by the second killing of a TC police officer.
Even if the TC police officer was sow bud the murder of a Cypriot citizen who made him job was not only a crime but also a big mistake, when we didn’t give them any chance to fight in our side.
Even if we had a small number of TC’s in EOKA the result was going to be different, not only we’ve throw them in the trash basket but also we started to kill them.
After the mess WE’ve fired up a lot of events happens and many mistakes from both sides were lead us in the Zurich plan were Makarios accept it.
In the Zurich plan the TC’s was a minority with some guarantees what we will not throw them out like in the Crete example and the whole philosophy of the plan was based in the nationalistic madness from both sides were actually started from our side.
The second big nationalistic bomb come also from our side in the stupid Akritas plan were ALL in ALL over the world they had started to speaking about two communities and a federation or unification with Greece to avoid a war between Turkey and Greece.
The Americans and the NATO was giving us a unification solution (like the Atcenson plan) because they wanted the stability on the area and to have their ally’s on NATO Turkey and Greece both satisfied. The destruction of the NATO efforts to found a solution was from our side were we had a stupid religious leader were no one actually know what he wanted, most probably he was just a racist who wanted to get rid off the TC’s and keep his political power and this is the most logical explanation.
The above example of the fascist politician can’t do any good to our side and only a total stupid can see something like that.
Makarios made a lot of foolish things and his relations with NATO and UN was going from worst to worst.
After the failure of the Acheson plan he tried to involve the USSR in a matter of NATO and the Russians offer us for exchange a federation with two communities witch it was the most logical solution after the unification with Greece.
Another example was back at 1966 he was supplied with arms ILLIGAL from Czechoslovakia to build his own personal army with out informing the UN or Greece and NATO.
Back then(1966) the Greek newspaper Hellenic North (Ellinikos Voras) the Estia and some other newspapers was warning the Cypriot peoples for the Makarios actions like this:
Greece is not the church of Kikkos to let Makarios to do what ever he wants, send him back with a warning to the Cypriot people because of his policy it’s possible what the Americans (with the British agreement) will call the Turks to invade in the island. Because is stupid and ridiculous every one who things what the Americans will let Cyprus to become the Cuba of Mediterranean.
I’m just saying all this to stop accusing the foreigners for our mistakes because no one will ever going to take us seriously.
The Americans and the British are not from heaven but our economy is based on their support (only by thinking the fact that over 200 000 GC was worked in England) and if they wanted we will never be able to be a EU member, the only reason why they have made us a member of Europe is to solve the Cyprus problem and to give the passport to Turkey to be a member of EU also. Witch we had actually give them by the congratulations of Mr Papadopoulos.
We are not alone in the world and if we want to have rights and wealth we must also understand our responsibility because I have to warn the Cypriot people (like Hellenic North did) what we have paid and we will paid as it seems our 4in1 mistake (hope no 5in1).
1 EOKA big fighters who create the mess
2 Akritas big fighters who made the division and update the TC’s to community.
3 Makarios great leader and big fighter of the world wide political game.
4 EOKA B big fighters of enosis.
1 When ever tried to play the strong guy, the fighter (to palikari) we had paid the price.
Apollonie, why are you posting all the above?
What relationship do they possibly have with what is presently at stake in Cyprus? Do you know what issue(s) is /are at stake now in Cyprus? Which are they?
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