Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

This discussion was split out from this thread by erolz

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3042

below are copies of two posts from the user fi that have been reproduced at the begining of this thread to maintain as much consistency with the thread split as possible. They are then followed by a post by myself that was the 'start' of this split thread at the time it was originaly split.

The 3% is propaganda.

Also many analysts of the period agree that the TC followed a predetermined plan (as directed by Turkish officials) to move TC into enclaves; this would work three-fold:

1) So as to not merge with the greek element and hence slowly disappear
2) Provide a fighting body
3) Create in Kyrenia a landing point for a Turkish invasion

And I trully beleive there is truth to this.

Hi gabaston, I think my post said it clearly.
If the TC were mixed with the GC population then they would slowly in time loose their identity and merge into one with the GC.

As for the cyprus-conflict site I think is way too one sided (in this case presents only one side of the story!)

Turkey even proposed a plan which meant the move of 200,000 people (which later finally happened).

Also TC propaganda usually states that TC were forced out of goverment whereas the truth and I bet you can get papers from the ministry of interiors is that they wilfully filled their resignations to vice-president Kucuk and in a combined move left from power.

----------------- original 'starting' post when thread was split -----------------

Also many analysts of the period agree that the TC followed a predetermined plan (as directed by Turkish officials) to move TC into enclaves; this would work three-fold:

Many analysts? Can you quote one that is not GC or Greek?

And I trully beleive there is truth to this.

The truth is that the main reason most TC fled their homes was organised violence from GC and the fear of such violence.

The single most detailed and authoritive study on this can be found here.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/Patrick-chp%203.htm

[erolz]

As for the cyprus-conflict site I think is way too one sided (in this case presents only one side of the story!)

The cyprus conflict site is the most balanced site relating to the Cyprus problem there is. Or do you know of a more balanced one?
The article I refered to is not one sided - it just does not come to conclusion that support your sides propaganda. It is a detailed study carried out by a respected acedmic who is regarded as a leading authority on the issue. It clearly lays out both sides positions. It sites all it's sources and makes it's conclusion.

Also TC propaganda usually states that TC were forced out of goverment whereas the truth and I bet you can get papers from the ministry of interiors is that they wilfully filled their resignations to vice-president Kucuk and in a combined move left from power.

TC withdrew from a government where the GC elements had refused to implemt agreemnts made in the 60 neogitations (re municiplaites) and ignored a supreme court rulling against the GC side. How can one continue to participate in a partnership government where one side reneges on agreements and illegaly ingores it's own supreme court rulings?

Also the TC made a formal request in 65 via the UN to return to their positions. This was refused by the then all GC 'RoC' unless they accepted without any negotiation Makarios' 13 'proposed' ammendments to the constiution that would have robbed TC of 95% of their rights under the consitituion.

[metecyp]

Also the TC made a formal request in 65 via the UN to return to their positions. This was refused by the then all GC 'RoC' unless they accepted without any negotiation Makarios' 13 'proposed' ammendments to the constiution that would have robbed TC of 95% of their rights under the consitituion.

Erol, I didn't know this. Is this on the cyprus-conflict site as well? I'm interested to learn more on this issue.

[erolz]

Erol, I didn't know this. Is this on the cyprus-conflict site as well? I'm interested to learn more on this issue.

I am not sure if it is there or not. I will try and dig out my sources for this. It is one or more of the many books I have relating to the cyprus problem - so it might take me a while to find the references

[erolz]

Erol, I didn't know this. Is this on the cyprus-conflict site as well? I'm interested to learn more on this issue.

There is a bit more about it here (not the most 'independent' site but the easiest to find right now). I will do some 'digging' of my own re this claim and see what corroborations I can find for it if any.

http://www.trncinfo.com/TANITMADAIRESI/ ... 230102.HTM

(the lie no2 section)

[Main_Source]

Also on the Cyprus Conflict website...a non Greek written source.

24 wholly Turkish villages and Turkish houses in 72 mixed villages were abandoned. Later Turkish Cypriots returned to 5 of their own villages and 19 of the mixed villages. Most of the moves seem to have been spontaneous and hasty, following a local incident of violence, the people leaving clothing, furniture, and food behind. But in some cases orders were received for the people to go, and once villagers had moved, the Turkish paramilitaries, now much expanded in numbers and known simply as 'the Fighters', exercised substantial coercion to prevent returning in most cases to government-controlled areas. The necessary territorial basis for partition was being found. C

[Filitsa]

I read "Clerides's Lie #2."

Can anyone here explain or direct me to a link that explains the circumstances surrounding the walk-out of the Turkish parliament members?

[erolz]

Also on the Cyprus Conflict website...a non Greek written source.

24 wholly Turkish villages and Turkish houses in 72 mixed villages were abandoned. Later Turkish Cypriots returned to 5 of their own villages and 19 of the mixed villages. Most of the moves seem to have been spontaneous and hasty, following a local incident of violence, the people leaving clothing, furniture, and food behind. But in some cases orders were received for the people to go, and once villagers had moved, the Turkish paramilitaries, now much expanded in numbers and known simply as 'the Fighters', exercised substantial coercion to prevent returning in most cases to government-controlled areas. The necessary territorial basis for partition was being found. C

Thanks for that though an actual link would also have been useful. (it can be found here btw http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/narrative-main-%203.htm )

This document as well as the more detailed one I gave earlier also supports my position, made many times here and refutes that made by some GC here equally frequently.

" Most of the moves seem to have been spontaneous and hasty, following a local incident of violence, the people leaving clothing, furniture, and food behind."

I have argued here many times that the main reason that most TC fled their homes was GC violence and the fear of it. Your refernce again supports this assertion.

I have never denied it was the only reason that all TC fled their homes. Just as I have never denied that having fled their homes some were prevented from returning to them by TC with the threat of violence against them if they disobeyed and even the use of violence and in a small number of case murder.

So main source will you now accept the basic assertion that the main reason most TC fled their homes in this period was in fact GC violence against them and fear of that violence? Will those GC who have so consistently argued against this assertion do the same - so we can finaly put this issue to bed and move on? Or will you and they continue to assert that the main reason most TC fled their homes in this period was in fact the persuit of the political goal of partition and not GC violence and the fear of such?

[Main_Source]

Filitsa...are you really going to take ANYTHING on a 'TRNC' seriously?

[erolz]

I read "Clerides's Lie #2."

Can anyone here explain or direct me to a link that explains the circumstances surrounding the walk-out of the Turkish parliament members?

My understanding, without checking my references and from memory, was that the TC members 'walked out' (withdrew) from parliament following Makarios' decision to ignore the RoC's supreme court ruling (aginst GC) on the issue of municiplaites - a refusal that also led to the indpendent Supreme court judge (as stipulated by the 60 consitution) to also 'walk out' - never to be replaced as the consitituion required (and still requires in the RoC?).

I will try and find some links / refernces for you re this.