Cyprus-Forum.com

[cannedmoose]

In another thread (link given below), Pantelis has asserted his belief that the opening of the Green Line should be recemented, returning to the pre-April 2003 restrictions, claiming that the relaxation of the frontier has only served to benefit TCs, to the detriment of GCs.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1319

Do you agree with Pantelis' theory? If so, what reasons would you cite in your support. If you disagree, what improvements for both communities have the last 2 years brought?

[metecyp]

Do you agree with Pantelis' theory? If so, what reasons would you cite in your support. If you disagree, what improvements for both communities have the last 2 years brought?

I don't agree at all. Closing the borders will not bring any benefits to either side. In the past 2 years, I finally got to see the whole island. I showed the north to many of my GC friends and they showed me the south. My dad started remembering his Greek after interacting with GCs. I know many TCs study/work/shop in the south and many GCs shop in the north. Many people made good friends through this process. My bicommunal organizations flourished. All these interactions did nothing but improve the relations between the two communities. Now, pantelis wants to close the gates so "TCs can do their homework". I see only one motive behind this. He wants TCs to be totally isolated and totally excluded from the RoC, so they can come and beg for a solution in desperation. Then, we'll have a solution that is fair and functional according to GCs.

[cannedmoose]

I'd be interested in hearing the point of view of the person who just voted 'yes', unless it was Pantelis, in which case he's already put forward his view.

[magikthrill]

maybe that person would like to remain anonymous

by the way i voted no

[pantelis]

maybe that person would like to remain anonymous

Yes, I would!

[erolz]

maybe that person would like to remain anonymous

Yes, I would!

[Piratis]

claiming that the relaxation of the frontier has only served to benefit TCs, to the detriment of GCs.

Actually this is true, except if you count "another tourist destination" as a benefit for GCs.

I hope the opening of the gates will help the TCs to realize that GCs are not the monsters that have been taught and that now is 2005 and not the 60's.

However they should know that this can not continue forever in this way. For example is not possible that we will always pay with out taxes for their health care, while at the same time they illegally occupy our homes.

The should decide if they want to be with us, or with out us. Do they want a truly united Cyprus? Or they prefer their independence? A disguised partition "best of two worlds" solution does not exist, even if the Annan plan made them believe it did.

If they want to be in one united Cyprus with us, then they should leave behind their separatist views like "two peoples", "political equality of communities on everything" etc. and stop to insist on permanent derogations from our human rights. They should know that more benefits means more responsibilities at the same time.

If they choose independence, this I believe is feasible by keeping around 18% of the ground.

If TCs choose to have both, It will inevitably irritate more and more GCs that will see themselves being victimized all the time, and more GCs will demand the closing of the green line.

[antonis]

Close the gates? Completely out of scope, I would say. More should be opened, and asap! The partial lifting of the restrictions by the turkish army is a step that allows the two communities to meet and understand each other. This should not be given a permanent status, but should evolve over time. And closing the gates is not the right next step.

It may be true that there are various reasons for wanting to cross the checkpoint and some are more reasonable than others. To work, to visit a place you've only seen in pictures, to meet people, to go shopping etc. There was actually a very disturbing article at the Telegraph, on how the card table has reunited Cypriots, which is also true...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... world.html

[erolz]

Actually this is true, except if you count "another tourist destination" as a benefit for GCs.

You see no benefit of TC and GC being able to visit the other side and meet and interact with each other vs not being able to do so other than that stated above? Really?

I hope the opening of the gates will help the TCs to realize that GCs are not the monsters that have been taught and that now is 2005 and not the 60's.

Is that then not another benefit beyond the first one. Is it not also possible that it also allows GC to realise that we are not the monster that they have been tought we are, that we do not live in abject poverty and under harsh oppression of an occupying army?

However they should know that this can not continue forever in this way. For example is not possible that we will always pay with out taxes for their health care, while at the same time they illegally occupy our homes.

Just how many TC's healthcare do you actually think you are paying for out of your taxes? The fact is it is a tiny tiny minority of TC that use GC health care - the vast majority use TC, Turkish, British, German healthcare before they would use GC. The idea that allowing TC to use the RoC healtcare is an indication of GC generousity and compassion si just not correct. The tiny amount of TC that do use it are allowed to use it only because of the politcal leverage it gives the RoC and for no other reason. The fact is if all TC or even a siginificant number of them were to use the RoC's healtcare facilites then they would be stopped from doing so (and rightly so). The fact is there is a price to TC using the RoC's healthcare system. That that price is not in poundfs but in political advantage makes it no less a price. You pay for this from your taxes and you get the benefit of it. A straight quid pro quo.

The should decide if they want to be with us, or with out us.

With you as we were in 64 or with you in some different way?

Do they want a truly united Cyprus?

United as we were in 64 or some other form of untied Cyprus?

Or they prefer their independence? A disguised partition "best of two worlds" solution does not exist, even if the Annan plan made them believe it did.

If the choice is how TC lived in Cyprus in 64 or independance the vast majority of TC would choose independance I have little doubt. If however there is a third way they will look to that possibility.

If they want to be in one united Cyprus with us, then they should leave behind their separatist views like "two peoples", "political equality of communities on everything" etc. and stop to insist on permanent derogations from our human rights. They should know that more benefits means more responsibilities at the same time.

You mean we should go back to 63? Forget everything we have suffered and struggled for to date? Forget and give up their valid rights as a partner community in Cyprus? Subjecgate themselves as a community to the GC community on everything (except perhaps a few 'gifts' from the GC community that can be removed at any time the GC community feels like doing so?).

If they choose independence, this I believe is feasible by keeping around 18% of the ground.

You may believe this but you are living in a dream world if you think there has ever been any point in Cyprus' history when the GC community in Cyprus was prepared to accept a division of Cyprus into two independant states - whatever the size of the two states. This has never been acceptable to GC (leaders) as a matter of principal. Not in 59. Not in 63. Not in 74 and not today.

If TCs choose to have both, It will inevitably irritate more and more GCs that will see themselves being victimized all the time, and more GCs will demand the closing of the green line.

We do not chose both. We want a third way. Currently you offer us two ways - one capitulate. Two - seperation which actually you will never accept. Not a great choice for TC so instead we continue to try and find a third way.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

However they should know that this can not continue forever in this way. For example is not possible that we will always pay with out taxes for their health care, while at the same time they illegally occupy our homes.

If you think this way then you should have all these "benefits" cancelled right away.

What gain will GC people obtain from this decision? Do you think it will apply pressure on TCs to embrace a disfunctional 1960 constitution?? The few TCs that use your services will go to Turkey like the majority.