Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Some people, Zan for example, come to this forum just to spread lies.

Here is a good example:

In this thread http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11086 I had said that in 1974 no TC was killed until after the Turkish invasion had started.

Zan came to dispute what I said and lied by saying: "So the two villages that were being attacked and bombed by you guys before the intervention, and the cause of the intervention..."

He was of course lying (as he usually does) and when I asked him to name me which were this two villages that according to him were attacked and caused the invasion, he ate his words and he didn't know what to say. He never said any names of villages. He first went back to 67, saying that he meant that what caused the invasion of 1974 was what happened in 67 (!!!), then he went on telling stories about his cousin etc.

So basically he lied that the Turkish invasion was cased because of of what supposedly happened in 2 villages, and then he was trying to excuse his lies.

Then today again in another thread he comes and says: "We didn't kill anyone, remember....It was Turkey when you tried to stop them from saving us from your henchmen."

So the conclusion is that this people were taught some lies to come here and say and they continue saying the same lies over and over again even when it is made crystal clear to them and everybody that what they claim has nothing to do with the truth.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Zan is a typical example of most Turkish Cypriots who believe the lies spread in the Turkish community about the Cyprus problem - but when you ask them to go into detail about a particular issue - they either side step the question or are proved wrong.

Its a shame really because most Turkish Cypriots dont know what to believe. ATCA website is a perfect example of Turkish brainwashing.

[Nikephoros]

Has any Greek here read or looked at the book: Η άλλη πλευρά :Πολιτική χρονογραφία της εισβολής στην Κύπρο, με βάση τουρκικές πηγές by Neoklis Sarris?

Is there any book where a Greek historian ever soundly defeats the myriad Turkish lies about Cyprus using their own sources? For example: comparing the the memoirs/written accounts of Turkish diplomats negotiating ceasefires to the accounts of Turkish soldiers who never received orders from any ceasefire since the Turkish side had no intent to respect such agreements.

[zan]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[T_C]

Piratis you're the absolute queen of propaganda so I don't know why the TCs are bothering you...

[miltiades]

:?:

Piratis you're the absolute queen of propaganda so I don't know why the TCs are bothering you...

Perhaps you could elaborate a little here and enlighten the observers , my self included , as how you have arrived at the above conclusion that Piratis is a propagandist. Have not always agreed with Piratis but I do not for a second consider him to be a propagandist. He has continually challenged the existence of the "TRNC" and so does the entire world. My dear friend , and I mean that, the sheer propaganda surrounding the myth that Turkey invaded in order to put and end to the massacre of the T/C community is being perpetuated by the VPs and Zans of this world who know perfectly well that some 7 years prior to Turkey invading , they were no casualties , and those whose demise is attributed to intercommunal conflict is debatable since no evidence whats so ever exists to show that their deaths were as a result of conflict.

[zan]

:?:

Piratis you're the absolute queen of propaganda so I don't know why the TCs are bothering you...

Perhaps you could elaborate a little here and enlighten the observers , my self included , as how you have arrived at the above conclusion that Piratis is a propagandist. Have not always agreed with Piratis but I do not for a second consider him to be a propagandist. He has continually challenged the existence of the "TRNC" and so does the entire world. My dear friend , and I mean that, the sheer propaganda surrounding the myth that Turkey invaded in order to put and end to the massacre of the T/C community is being perpetuated by the VPs and Zans of this world who know perfectly well that some 7 years prior to Turkey invading , they were no casualties , and those whose demise is attributed to intercommunal conflict is debatable since no evidence whats so ever exists to show that their deaths were as a result of conflict.

Now you are beginning to really piss me off with lies added to insults. You really are a crook and using words like debatable to confuse the issue is an old old trick that has been taught to you by the propagandist thugs that still run he "RoC". If history does not prove hat you guys have intentions of owning the whole country then your posts and that of people like Piratis do. I have dealt with all the issues that Piratis has put up for discussion (that’s a laugh) and his parrot (that would be you) but still you keep pumping out he same shit. Your obvious attempts to confuse the situation becomes more apparent with every post. Keep talking my friend. Keep talking.

I will deal with your rubbish once more over the weekend. If you think that I will tire and go away you have another think coming.

[bigOz]

:?:

Piratis you're the absolute queen of propaganda so I don't know why the TCs are bothering you...

Perhaps you could elaborate a little here and enlighten the observers , my self included , as how you have arrived at the above conclusion that Piratis is a propagandist. Have not always agreed with Piratis but I do not for a second consider him to be a propagandist. He has continually challenged the existence of the "TRNC" and so does the entire world. My dear friend , and I mean that, the sheer propaganda surrounding the myth that Turkey invaded in order to put and end to the massacre of the T/C community is being perpetuated by the VPs and Zans of this world who know perfectly well that some 7 years prior to Turkey invading , they were no casualties , and those whose demise is attributed to intercommunal conflict is debatable since no evidence whats so ever exists to show that their deaths were as a result of conflict.

Mr Miltiades - putting aside personal attacks and insults for a minute, let us all think rationally before jumping to conclusions about who is saying what and who is brainwashed by bad propaganda etc. I would like all sensible GCs to give me an honest opinion on this and not just an answer fro the sake of an argument, or with a "mine is bigger than yours" attitude.

Below is what GC paper Haravgi wrote - I am sure anyone can find the original copy in the ir office archives:

The Greek Cypriot Communist party published the confessions of a Greek Cypriot on 20 July 1998. The Greek Cypriot, Nikos Yenya, who lives in London told "Haravgi" that as a soldier he was based at Kyrenia in the north and when they were running away from the Turkish army in 1974, his unit went through the Turkish Cypriot villages of Sandallar and Murataga. Yenya said :

"We went through Sandallari and Marata, what I have seen there was so horrific that I will never forget it as long as I live. The EOKA -B members were opening big ditches with bulldozers and burying the Turkish Cypriots that they have killed, amongst the murdered were children women and old people (The reason was, all the men were sent to concentration camps in Limassol thus survived the massacres).... One of the EOKA man said WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB"

The above took place within 48 hours of the Turkish invasion. The men were taken away long before - allegedly before the invasion started, but I'll try to get more data on that for you. No one knows exactly when the killings took place - they could well have been before the invasion and EOKA knowing Turkish forces have landed on the island decided to hide the evidence - similar to why Jews were buried during WW2.

EOKA by than had killed thoussands of Grteek Cypriots and even buried some of them in mass graves. From the offset it was evident this was aGreek mainland backed coup, supporting EOKA, whose motto had always been ENOSIS - union with Greece.

Now put yourseles in TCs place around the time just before the Turkish invasion and answer this question please:
Do you seriously believe that an EOKA governed Cyprus, members of which did not hesitate to shoot their own, would have left alone any Turkish Cypriot occupants of any enclave in Cyprus after they finished dealing with their own?

Especially when the same group made it clear in the recent past that to achieve ENOSIS, it was necessary to cleanse the island of any Turkish inhabitants. Did they not made it obvious by the massacres they committed when they had the chance 1963-1967?

The only thing that stopped the Turks from constantly getting buried in mass graves was the change in the political views of Makarios and his new found prefernece to a free Cyprus Republic. Once Makarios was thrown overboard by the ENOSIS seekers and Turkish musrderers, which one of you genuinely believe EOKA led power in the South run by the hardest EOKA members would have left the Turks alone?

If only you are satisfied that I am completely wrong in the two bold questions above, please tell me why so and continue arguing on this matter. Otherwise, please stop adding insult to injury by discussing whether Turks got killed before, during or after the invasion! DOES IT REALLY MATTER? You cannot blame the Turkey for not wanting to put it to test and see if there would be any Turks left alive afterwards - it would have been too late for anything...

What is even more upsetting in this forum; everytime I call EOKA members "animals", I get responses clearly showing some get offended! It is as if there is a veil of permanent denial of their past present GC supporters. This is what is making TCs not trust the GCs at the end of the day. I am not talking about everyone of course...

Before any further baseless accusations of the Turkish forces being the source of no solutionin Cyprus, I sugest people answer my two questions above or zip it on this subject - it will not really get us anywhere!

[Get Real!]

The Greek Cypriot Communist party published the confessions of a Greek Cypriot on 20 July 1998. The Greek Cypriot, Nikos Yenya, who lives in London told "Haravgi" that as a soldier he was based at Kyrenia in the north and when they were running away from the Turkish army in 1974, his unit went through the Turkish Cypriot villages of Sandallar and Murataga. Yenya said :

"We went through Sandallari and Marata, what I have seen there was so horrific that I will never forget it as long as I live. The EOKA -B members were opening big ditches with bulldozers and burying the Turkish Cypriots that they have killed, amongst the murdered were children women and old people (The reason was, all the men were sent to concentration camps in Limassol thus survived the massacres).... One of the EOKA man said WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB"

There are a few funny things about this piece:

For starters “Yenya” doesn’t sound like is a GC surname. Second, this person’s alleged confession uses TC village names in his speech! No GC would ever use TC names because not only do we not know them but we ALWAYS use the centuries old real Greek names of places. Finally, the use of words like “concentration camps” and “massacres” are a dead giveaway that this is a convenient TC piece of rubbish.

Also, when you have thousands of troops, tanks, helicopters, and jets, advancing from Kyrenia to Nicosia, a 20 min drive, who would be stupid enough to be digging holes with a bulldozer at a place just beneath Kyrenia when they know that Turks could arrive and kill them at any moment?

Those of us who lived and survived the Turkish invasion of 74 know very well how fast it all happened, how confusing it all was, and how people panicked and were running in all directions. Dozens of village names were being announced over the radio each day as they were falling to the fast advancing invader.

[bigOz]

The Greek Cypriot Communist party published the confessions of a Greek Cypriot on 20 July 1998. The Greek Cypriot, Nikos Yenya, who lives in London told "Haravgi" that as a soldier he was based at Kyrenia in the north and when they were running away from the Turkish army in 1974, his unit went through the Turkish Cypriot villages of Sandallar and Murataga. Yenya said :

"We went through Sandallari and Marata, what I have seen there was so horrific that I will never forget it as long as I live. The EOKA -B members were opening big ditches with bulldozers and burying the Turkish Cypriots that they have killed, amongst the murdered were children women and old people (The reason was, all the men were sent to concentration camps in Limassol thus survived the massacres).... One of the EOKA man said WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB"

There are a few funny things about this piece:

For starters “Yenya” doesn’t sound like is a GC surname. Second, this person’s alleged confession uses TC village names in his speech! No GC would ever use TC names because not only do we not know them but we ALWAYS use the centuries old real Greek names of places. Finally, the use of words like “concentration camps” and “massacres” are a dead giveaway that this is a convenient TC piece of rubbish.

Also, when you have thousands of troops, tanks, helicopters, and jets, advancing from Kyrenia to Nicosia, a 20 min drive, who would be stupid enough to be digging holes with a bulldozer at a place just beneath Kyrenia when they know that Turks could arrive and kill them at any moment?

Those of us who lived and survived the Turkish invasion of 74 know very well how fast it all happened, how confusing it all was, and how people panicked and were running in all directions. Dozens of village names were being announced over the radio each day as they were falling to the fast advancing invader.

You are in a state of "DENIAL" again GR. Why is it so hard for you top accept the truth - because that is the only way any TC will begin to trust the GCs bfore signing their life away to them in a unified Cyprus.

I agree with you that the invasion was so fast these people could not have been gathered up, killed and buried after the invasion had started but before! Hence you just proved the point, Turks were actually killed by the EOKA before the 1974 invasion!

The confession was made in 1998 by which time Greeks knew of Murataga and Sandallar. Note that the names in the confession are not exactly accurate. The mass graves and actions of EOKA in these villages was amply reflected in French and British news papers and to a lesser degree in others. But you must realise media communications and internet of today were not available back in 1974. Hence they never got the coverage they deserved.

Not all villages were Greek or had Greek names. Hundreds of TC only villages had existed from day one of their existance. They had both Greek and Turkish names. If you want a list please visit a land registry. Furthermore, I have given you the date of the confession and the Greek Newspaper that printed it - why don't you ask them to check their records rather than make silly comments as above and embarrass yourself all the time!

If denying such events is not propaganda then what is? Then your mates ask why the TCs do not trust the GCs or they do not want a settlement. You want good sources of info? Since you are so ignorant in the amount of suffering TC civilians went through in the hands of EOKA here are some to educate you:

The article below was written by Andreas Paraschos in Greek Cypriot Daily Politis 15/05/2003. Just as a taster read this:

n the context of an issue that I raised about the missing people, I argued how important it was to eliminate the bad blood between GCs and TCs. I said that we all had to work together to find out what happened to these people. I added that the families of the Turkish Cypriot missing should give blood samples for DNA tests, and I made special reference to the list of the Turkish Cypriot missing made public last Monday by the Republic of Cyprus. By referring to this list of missing persons, one can easily see what happened in the village of Tochni on the 14th of August, 1974: eighty-three Turkish Cypriot men are buried here in a mass grave. According to the dates of birth on this list, the youngest was 14 years old, and the oldest was 75 years old. It is a well-known fact that these Turkish Cypriots were executed in cold blood. Many other similar episodes are documented on the list, including the one of July 20th in Alamino, where exhumations took place recently. There are even worse cases, such as those in Marathas and Aloas, where children and women are included on the list. The date of birth of the youngest victim is 1974 (!) and of the oldest 1894. All were executed on 14th of August 1974. Last Thursday, on a private Turkish Cypriot channel, I openly and honestly voiced my apologies to my Turkish Cypriot compatriots, for the responsibility that my generation bears for those cold-blooded crimes. And I will repeat that apology whenever necessary. I am consistent in my principles and efforts with respect both to the issue of the missing people, and to the issue of a peaceful and permanent solution to the Cyprus problem. I am not afraid of the truth.

The full story in Greek version is available at
http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?- ... les&-p&-w=.
The English version at: http://www.cyprusaction.org/projects/lo ... schos.html
NOTE: If the page on th eEnglish version moves quickly to another Greek site, click the "back " arrow <-- on top left hand side of your browser to get to the original.

Here is a site especially for you to read! They are reports by Associate Press, BBC, Washington Post, the Guardian, CBS etc. etc. documenting the mass graves and atrocities carried out against TCs between 1963-1974. They are all foreign sources so no excuses here I hope:
http://www.mediaprof.org/tcvoices/trnch ... ccr74.html

If after all the above you still come back and carry on denying the same way, you will only porve to everyone what a fool of yourself you are making...