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[Nikephoros]

For those without the relevant historical background. Kazim Karabekir was the second most powerful man in the Nationalist Movement known as Kemalists. In his memoirs his desire to destroy the Armenian nation was never hidden. Only the false and sloppy history the Turkish government tries to impose on the historical record denies such evidences.


"In his massive volume on the Turkish War of Independence, Karabekir reiterates again and again the theme that Armenia is both a threat and an obstacle for Turkey's paramount need to establish contiguous frontiers with Azerbaijan and other Turkic countries in the Caucasus. (Kafkaslarda ebediyen yerle§mek lazimdir). He berates Halil Kut, the Commander of Army Groups East at the time, for hindering his plan to capture Zankezour at the end of World War I and to establish the link with Azerbaijan. That goal could have been accomplished so very easily, he claims. "I had my headquarters in Nakhitchevan ... and the act of disallowing my plans for Zankezour was a political and military crime." Karabekir further believed that Nakhitchevan should be in Turkish hands, as an inseparable part of the bridge to the east.27 By the same token Karabekir described Nakhitchevan as "an entirely pure Turkish land" (kamilen oz Turk), and as a corridor to Azerbaijan.28 Evidently, Halil himself was trying to capture Zankezour in 1920 for which purpose he was seeking from Karabekir an auxiliary force of 2,000 men, but the latter felt that under the conditions then prevailing that job should be left to the Azeris, even though "I am not convinced at all that they [the Azeris] are capable of achieving any positive results."29 For his part Halil Kut in April 1920 informed Karabekir from his military command post in Karabagh that his "soldiers are intent on liquidating [temizledik-ten] the Armenians of Karabagh .... The people and soldiers here are eagerly awaiting the crossing of the borders by the Ottoman armies so as to achieve this goal in a short period of time."30 This attitude was entirely in line with the thinking of Karabekir who on April 28, 1920 told the commander of the 3rd division of his Army Corps that "the aim of all Turks is to unite with the Turkic brothers. History is affording us today the last opportunity. In order for the Islamic world not to be forever fragmented it is necessary that the campaign against Karabagh be not allowed to abate. As a matter of fact drive the point home in Azeri circles that that campaign should be pursued with greater terror and severity {daha azim ve §iddetle). Impress upon them the point also that the Armenians should be kept busy until such time when we are ready to launch our own campaign."31
The most dominant theme punctuating Karabekir's volume relative to his designs against Armenia is his pledge to destroy Armenia in fulfilment of what he considered to be a national imperative. Describing the continued existence of Armenia as "a curse for us" (beld),32 Karabekir in the May 1919 to August 1920 period at least 12 times vowed to destroy Armenia using such terms as "crush" (ezmek), "finish off' (bitirecegiz) "trample down" (cignememize), "ruination" (mahv) "expire under the heel of the Turk" (can vereceksiniz), "annihilate'' (imha)."33

27. Karabekir, Istiklal Harbimiz [n. 2], 31, 882; idem, Istiklal... Esaslari [n. 8], 27.
28. Karabekir, Istiklal Harbimiz [n. 2], 394, 609.
29. Ibid., 315.
30. Ibid., 608.
31. Ibid., 631.
32. Ibid., 671.
33. Ibid., 67, 287, 373, 713, 749, 783, 805 in the context of the general's discussions. In specific correspondence, the following instances may be cited. To the Ankara government on April 13, 1920, in which communication Karabekir declared that "we will have to trample down Armenia in order to revitalize Azerbaijan," pp. 584-85; his order of the day on April 18, 1920, p. 603; to the Ankara government on May 15, 1920, p. 684; to the Armenian regimental commander on May 30, 1920, p. 715 where he uses the term "wipe out for eternity" (ebediyen mahv); to his armed forces on August 4, 1920, p. 722

Dadrian , Vahakn N., "The History of the Armenian Genocide. Ethnic Conflict from the Balkans to Anatolia to the Caucasus". (Providence/Oxford: Berghahn Books, 1997/second revision) p. 366, 373.

[Nikephoros]

Before this thread is bombed with a bunch of BS as usual in this forum.

Can a serious Greek Cypriot tell me if there is a Greek researcher the calibre of Dadrian who incriminates the Turkish side using their own historical sources like he incriminates the Turks regarding the Armenian genocide? What Dadrian does is use compelling evidence.

[LENA]

You better post that to the Political section Nikephore!!!

[Nikephoros]

Why political? It is more general, I feel since Turkish Cypriots do not even really understand the term genocide.

[LENA]

Before this thread is bombed with a bunch of BS as usual in this forum.

Can a serious Greek Cypriot tell me if there is a Greek researcher the calibre of Dadrian who incriminates the Turkish side using their own historical sources like he incriminates the Turks regarding the Armenian genocide? What Dadrian does is use compelling evidence.

I am not sure if what I am going to say is what you ask because I am not familiar with all the names that you mention above and all the history about Armenians...but Tony Angastiniotis...made a documentary about the TC and he is a GC and he is planning to do another one as well. But I know that others write books and try to make film like that.

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Why polticial? It is more general, I feel since Turkish Cypriots do not even really understand the term genocide.

This is true - they dont.

[LENA]

Why polticial? It is more general, I feel since Turkish Cypriots do not even really understand the term genocide.

Dont be so general...3-4 people opinion doesnt mean that they are all like that!

[Nikephoros]

Dadrian is a single Armenian historian and he has manhandled the Turkish goverment backed kanums declared regarding history by himself almost. A handful of Armenian diaspora historians such as Dadrian have turned the tide from them having to prove to genocide historians there was an Armenian genocide to genocide historians accepting it as a general fact.

On the other hand no Greek historian in the English language has definitively ever shut down the Turkish historical kanums regarding Cyprus using their own sources.

Tony Angastiniotis is an amatuer. I have seen his documentary he does not even understand the term "compelling sources" or "compelling evidences". All his documentary has is anecdotal personal accounts and truisms that prove nothing except that Turkish Cypriots will give anecodotes for a massacre of a small group of Turkish Cypriots and blow it out of all historical proportion.

[LENA]

Dadrian is a single Armenian historian and he has manhandled the Turkish goverment backed kanums declared regarding history by himself almost. A handful of Armenian diaspora historians such as Dadrian have turned the tide from them having to prove to genocide historians there was an Armenian genocide to genocide historians accepting it as a general fact.

On the other hand no Greek historian in the English language has definitively ever shut down the Turkish historical kanums regarding Cyprus using their own sources.

Tony Angastiniotis is an amatuer. I have seen his documentary he does not even understand the term "compelling sources" or "compelling evidences". All his documentary has is anecdotal personal accounts and truisms that prove nothing except that Turkish Cypriots will give anecodotes for a massacre of a small group of Turkish Cypriots and blow it out of all historical proportion.

Well Nikephore you sound like a man that has lot of knowledge around that. He is the only one that I know ... as far for the rest are novel books, movies and books with stories from both sides...but nothing like you described. I am sorry my knowledge is limited on that part.

But thank you for the informations ... I did read a bit on a quick search on internet after my post. Thank you anyway!

[Nikephoros]

This same book is translated to Greek:

Νταντριάν, Βαχάκν. Η ιστορία της Αρμένικης γενοκτονίας Εθνικές διαμάχες από τα Βαλκάνια στον Καύκασο