Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

let me put it this way simon. the party whose supporters were carrying greek flags for years (even though the enosis word was never heard from them) is that one party who voted yes for the anan plan. so who is the one in favor of enosis? you could say akel, and i would say with the current leadership who knows? perhaps you are indeed right

another question. forgeting the impossiblity for a moment. what makes you think that greece wants to unite with cyprus? even more, what benefits would we have to join with greece that would make us so eager to do that?

once again let me remind you the year in which we are having this conversation : 2006 !!!!

[Simon]

cypezokyli all I am saying is that I personally would like enosis given a choice. I also believe many others would to. The reason I say this is that I simply believe that Cyprus got left behind when the Greek islands were liberated. When Crete, Rhodes etc etc were finally annexed to Greece, Cyprus wanted the same but were denied by the British. They got left behind, but that today does not make them any less Greek.

The fact is I do not know whether Greece or Cyprus want to unite. I just suspect that given a choice, they probably would. However, I understand this is extremely unlikely given Turkey's involvement in Cyprus. However, it is certainly not impossible like you say. I believe Greece and Cyprus would get many benefits from joining. For a start, Cyprus wouldn't be so vulnerable from foreign occupiers, by joining a larger country. I also believe Cyprus would get more foreign investment, and more money for infastructure etc from Greece. Let me turn the question around and ask for what reason wouldn't they want to join if we are all Greek? Cyprus could still be autonomous with its own Parliament etc wthin the state of Greece. However, it is not really about benefits, it is about a moral right for the majority to choose their destiny. This is something Cyprus has never had and is only what I am asking for.

I don't really know if anyone supports it, I am merely voicing my opinion. I have said that I would be willing to drop these hopes, if TCs ended their ridiculous claim of 50/50 power share. You see, they want us to make all the concessions, while they just demand more and more. It doesn't matter what year we have this conversation in, foreign occupation still exists in 2006, that's what you should be worrying yourself with.

[cypezokyli]

with personal opinions : no problem simos
its just this specific personal opinion causes fears to our tcs compatriots. such opinion can be easily misinterprated. thats why i am kind of hard on you

The reason I say this is that I simply believe that Cyprus got left behind when the Greek islands were liberated. When Crete, Rhodes etc etc were finally annexed to Greece, Cyprus wanted the same but were denied by the British

.
firstly as i posted on the eoka thread, at some point we had the offer of self-determination but we that is makarios and the wise grivas rejected it.
second later despite the fact that we (the gc and never the tc) wanted we didnot get it. end of that story. we move forward. future not past, how can i explain it to you.

third, the last attempt to bring enosis brought the amazing result of dividing our country and causing a lot of pain. no union and thousand of refugees.

The fact is I do not know whether Greece or Cyprus want to unite

re simon, we had a military agreement and greece has said that it is not that possible anymore.

However, I understand this is extremely unlikely given Turkey's involvement in Cyprus

its not just turkeys involvement. its the whole worlds involvement. what makes you think that the UN or the EU will accept that. the security council resolutions talk about a BBF. and they are binding. therefore enosis is between ither things illegal.

For a start, Cyprus wouldn't be so vulnerable from foreign occupiers, by joining a larger country

do you believe we are in danger of yet another invation?

I also believe Cyprus would get more foreign investment, and more money for infastructure etc from Greece.

check the unemplyment rates in greece and cyprus.
compare the two economies. greece has been for years receiving help from the EU. we are already out from the big banch of money.

Cyprus could still be autonomous with its own Parliament etc wthin the state of Greece.

so you want an autonomy in joining greece?
like which other greek island?
or are we a special case?
what do you think about giving the tc autonomy in the RoC?

However, it is not really about benefits, it is about a moral right for the majority to choose their destiny.

first get the majority for enosis and then we discuss it again

I have said that I would be willing to drop these hopes, if TCs ended their ridiculous claim of 50/50 power share. You see, they want us to make all the concessions, while they just demand more and more.

if it is a tactical method, that is since they ask more i ll ask for even more, i am afraid that i still disagree with you. the tc dont demand a 50/50 share. they have it since 1960. and enosis is out of the question since 1960. its all th eother things we have to agree upon.

It doesn't matter what year we have this conversation in, foreign occupation still exists in 2006, that's what you should be worrying yourself with

and by reffering to enosis is a way of solving that ?

[BirKibrisli]

Simon,with all due respect,you are being a bit insensitive to the feelings of Cypriotturks.To most ENOSIS is like a red flag to a bull.As long as the ghost of Enosis is hanging over cyprus most of my fellow Cypriotturks would justify the status quo,invasion and occupation and all.
The only way out of this mess is by reaching out to each other as Cypriots,by building trust and understanding.If we can face the reality,that is:we are really one people divided by language and religion,that we have the same gene pool,shared history,common interests,common traditions,common human traits,common folklore and music,common everything really except the two big manmade differences,and the sooner the better,we might find a just solution.I am afraid that is the only way the majority of Cypriots will get any justice in Cyprus.Talking about joining Greece is as absurd as talking about joining Turkmenistan for Cypriotturks.Lets love our ethnic heritage and ancestors,but lets love our own nation and country more.We can do it if we really tried.

[cypezokyli]

thanks bir

[kythrea]

Hi Zan . Happy new Year.

I didn't say anything about a perfect system - in fact I said the opposite. With respect, it seems to me that you are the one demanding a perfect system and this is your prerequisite for a re-unified Cyprus. this is an impossible demand. is there any country in the world where there are no miscarriages of justice, discrimination etc ? please tell me and I will move there. The best we can do is put in place certain safeguards .

As you know, TCs have already successfully resorted to EU institutions to uphold their rights (ie Ahmet Djavit An) and there is no reason why they should not continue to do so. Do you think that in a separate TC state there would be no conflict, discrimination etc? Even if TCs were in the majority, this would not prevent discrimination on the basis of things like sex, political beliefs etc as happens in many countries around the world.

The riots in France in my view are not a good analogy btw. There we are talking about relatively new migrant groups who for whatever reason have not (yet) become integrated into French society. TCs have a long history in Cyprus and (at least until 1974) were highly integrated members of Cypriot society.

And a Happy and prosperous new year to you and all as well my friend.

My prerequisite for reunification to work is not so much a perfect society in which every one gets what they want, but conditions in which the feuding has long been forgotten and blame can be put on the individual rather than a race.

Nice 'motherhood statement' Zan - no reasonable person can disagree with what you say. you don't win an argument by changing the subject though i'm afraid

[ZHTO EOKA]

war is the only way for cyprus to be free!most gc's want enosis but have not had a choice.and maybe you ppl havent heard of any violence in london on the e demonstration because you dnt want 2 or you cant be bothered to come and partisipate or to busy liking turks arses and wanting to be freinds and for get about every thing that happened.that is treason in book,arse liking the ppl of the country that screwed us over and dealt us so much suffering wich some are still feeling now!

[Simon]

Zhto, I want enosis and have said so from day one. But I don't see how making violence in London is going to make one scrap of difference. Britain is not a big part of the Cyprus problem anymore, so what is causing violence there going to achieve? If you want to make a real difference, protest peacefully in Cyprus. Get more and more people on your side in Cyprus, that's where it counts, not London. Surely you can understand this.

[cypezokyli]

simon wrote:

Zhto, I want enosis and have said so from day one.

i thought, u wanted partition as an itermidiate step for re-unification.
or was that the "other" simon ?

war is the only way for cyprus to be free!most gc's want enosis but have not had a choice.and maybe you ppl havent heard of any violence in london on the e demonstration because you dnt want 2 or you cant be bothered to come and partisipate or to busy liking turks arses and wanting to be freinds and for get about every thing that happened.that is treason in book,arse liking the ppl of the country that screwed us over and dealt us so much suffering wich some are still feeling now!

what s with this war thing today!!!
well i dont base my friendships on ethnisity zito H eoka (still this article is missing), but the chances are, that i ll rather have a tc friend supporting peace , from a gc supporting war.
u can call it treason, u can all it everything u want.

suffering is not a gc uniqueness.
would you mind sharing with us your suffering ?

[Simon]

cypezokyli are you really that stupid. When have I ever denied that I wanted enosis. Indeed, I even said it at the beginning of the proposal I mentioned. However, what I have said a thousand times and what I will say again is, while I favour enosis, I would be willing to put that aside if there was either PROPORTIONATE representation in any Cyprus government, or if (and this is my proposal in the other thread) the island was separated on a proportional basis.

Why is that so hard to understand? It's clear, my dream enosis. I know this is unlikely so I at least want proportionality in Cyprus, and this is what my proposal was about. Simple as that.