Bananiot wrote:The debate on this subject started on Angastiniotis film that describes GC atrocities that most people now acknowledge they took place. The GC's of the forum tried to capitalise on this by pointing out that even on this respect we are superior, that is, here is a GC that can actually speak his mind and in a sense say the truth, but, where is the TC Angastiniotis that will reveal atrocities commited by the TC's?
Who is the GC in this forum that “tried to capitalise on this by pointing out that even on this respect we are superior,” as you said? This is just one more nonsense form your behalf!
Bananiot wrote:As I said before, this is not the issue, even if Sevgul has written on numerous occasions of the plight of the GC's. By the way, in Arediou village, three young Turkish Cypriots were taken from their homes by the police and no one has seen them since. This is state sponsored terrorism Kifeas, and it is another example of government sponsored murders.
Is it so? Do you know what a state sponsored murder means? The fact that policemen were engaged in murders and terrorism, proves that they were also authorised by the state to do so? By whom authorised? By Makarios, by Klerides who was the minister of justice or by Papadopoullos? Were they acting according to the parameters of the Akritas plan? More nonsense?
This is what is being written in the Akritas plan which was drafted by Yiorkatzis, Klerides and Papadopoullos.
Under Chapter A. External tactics, paragraph d,
“i) The Greek efforts are directed towards removing unreasonable and unfair provisions of administration and not to oppress the Turkish Cypriots;”Under Chapter B. Internal Front, section 2,
“Reason (a) has already been dealt with in the first part and, consequently, it remains only to consider the danger of inter-communal violence. Since we do not intend, without provocation, to attack or kill Turks, the possibility remains that the Turkish Cypriots, as soon as we proceed to the unilateral amendment of any article of the constitution, will react instinctively, creating incidents and clashes or stage, under orders, killings, atrocities or bomb attacks on Turks, in order to create the impression that the Greeks have indeed attacked the Turks, in which case intervention would be justified, for their protection.
Tactics. Our actions for constitutional amendments will be in the open and we will always appear ready for peaceful negotiations. Our actions will not be of a provocative or violent nature.
Should clashes occur, they will be dealt with in the initial stages legally by the legally established security forces, in accordance with a plan. All actions will be clothed in legal form.”Under Chapter B. Internal Front, section 3,
"3. Before the right of unilateral amendments of the constitution is established, decisions and actions which require positive violent acts, such as, for example, the use of force to unify the separate municipalities, must be avoided. Such a decision compels the Government to intervene by force to bring about the unification of municipal properties, which will probably compel the Turks to react violently. On the contrary, it is easier for us, using legal methods, to amend, for instance, the provision of the 70 to 30 ratio in the public service, when it is the Turks who will have to take positive violent action, while for us this procedure will not amount to action, but to refusal to act (to implement).”Under Chapter B. Internal Front, section 4,
“4. It is, however, naive to believe that it is possible to proceed to substantive acts of amendment of the constitution, as a first step of our general plan, as has been described above, without the Turks attempting to create or to stage violent clashes. For this reason, the existence of our organisation is an imperative necessity because:
a) In the event of instinctive violent Turkish reactions, if our counter-attacks are not immediate, we run the risk effacing panic in the Greeks in the towns and thus losing substantial vital areas, while, on the other hand, an immediate show of our strength may bring the Turks to their senses and confine their actions to sporadic insignificant acts, and
b) In the event of a planned or staged Turkish attack, it is imperative to overcome it by force in the shortest possible time, because if we succeed in gaining command of the situation (in one or two days), no outside, intervention would be either justified or possible.”As anyone can read from all the above, no unilateral or unprovoked attack against TCs was envisioned, planed or favoured, but only as a response to potential TC violent reactions.http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/akritas_plan.htmBananiot wrote:In 1963 many paramilitary groups sprung, created by Makarios men and blessed by Makarios. They included paramilitarists of Yiorkatzis and Papadopoulos, Sampson and socialfascist Lyssarides. They went on a killing spree in a number of villages and communities.
Papadopoullos has
never been a member of Yiorkatzis teams, neither he commanded any of his teams, nor he had any paramilitary team(s) of his own, nor he ever participated in any violent actions. He had only participated in the drafting of the Akritas plan, likewise Klerides had. This is just another lie on your behalf. The paramilitary teams of Lyssarides and particularly of Sampson, were not initiated into the Akritas plan, nor he was acting according to it’s guidelines, but on his own and for his own sake. In fact the authors of the Akritas plan and particularly Yiorkatzis himself, favoured and attempted the disarmament of Sampson teams, because of Sampson’s rightfully perceived, (and proved to be so the end,) irresponsible and fanatic nature and attitude. Read Drousiotis book on this issue!
Bananiot wrote:Papadopoulos eveb threatened to clean all TC's in 1 hour and 45 minutes.
Papadopoullos threat was nothing more than a bluffing threat out of despair, and which was forwarded to the Americans in order to induce them in taking action and stop the declared and initiated Turkish invasion in 1964. It was a political trick and nothing more than that. There is nothing in the Akritas plan, which suggests that there was such a will, intention or motive. Your personal hatred for Papadopoullos is simply blinding you, even on this matter.
This is what MARTIN PACKARD a British officer of the UN forces that took over the situation after the events, says about Papadopoullos in a recent interview in the Cyprus Mail.
“Cyprus has been subject to consistent interference and subversion from abroad. This is not to absolve Cypriot politicians of responsibility for their mistakes but it suggests that they should be careful of putting much faith in foreign planning for their future.
The events of early 1964 have never been clearly explained to the Cypriot public and have been grossly distorted by foreign commentators. The truth about them is essentially unifying rather than divisive. The mediating process then, which came close to success, depended on two men, Tassos Papadopoulos and Fazil Kutchuk. Each was a Cypriot nationalist, rather than a Greek or Turkish one; but each was prepared to seek a new and workable partnership. Maybe it was a recoil from the abyss but no snide belittlement can alter the fact of what. they achieved, or sought to achieve, during the period that I was working with them. The conquering of violence and the survival of a great number of Turkish Cypriots stemmed from that co-operation and from the conciliatory efforts that were spearheaded by Papadopoulos: I say this not because of friendship or respect but as a witness to events in which I was involved.” http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=18762Bananiot wrote:In those times, it was considered an act of bravery to kill a Turk. No one was ever convicted or arrested or brought to justice for murders of innocent TC's.
This is probably one of the very few sentences with which I will agree with you. This has been one of the biggest mistakes of the GC side and Makarios, that he had no will and more importandly no real power to punish some of those people who committed senseless atrocities.
Bananiot wrote:The killings were done by members of the "Organisation" that is Akritas, many of whom were ex EOKA men and even school students had pistols that they brought to classes. Let me give you an example that illustrates the lunacy at the time. In early 1964 a pupil was playing with his pistol in Ay. Kasianos Gymnasium when the piece fired accidentally. The bullet passed right through the soft tissue of his leg and also injured another pupil. The event was quickly covered up and the next day, Sampson's daily "Machi" came up with the following heading: "Two heroic Greek pupils fall victim to turkish snipers". These morons who inflicted the injuries to themselves became instant heroes. Had they managed to kill a Turk they would have probably gained sainthood!
Sampson and his teams, which were acting outside the parameters and guidelines of the Akritas plan and the official GC leadership, carried out the vast majority of Killings and atrocities. In Omorfita and in Ayios Vasilios too.
Bananiot wrote:It is also very wrong to claim that TC's did nothing to expose the murderers of their community. In fact, quite a number of them did exactly this and paid a heafty penalty for doing so. Many of them were murdered by TMT or forced to emigrate to UK mainly. So, at least you can show some respect to these people that gave their lives for a vision, of a Cyprus free of chauvinism and nationalism, for a Cyprus for its people.
I did not say that there are no TCs who did nothing to expose murderers from their community, and stop patronising the TCs in the forum! I just asked why not a similar documentary like that of Angastiniotis, was not made by a TC. I had my reasons for asking this question and my reasons are not the ones you believe them to be, i.e. to discredit the TCs or to show the GC superiority in this matter and all the rest of the nonsense you are pouring out. You are just behaving more pro-royal than the king himself, when it comes down to patronising the TCs!
Bananiot wrote:Is there anyone that can seriously claim that Cyprus has not fallen victim of the nationalists from both communities? Apart from Kifeas is there anyone that cannot see the role played by Papadopoulos in the turbulent times of the 60's, when, according to Drousiotis, the first partition was cemented?
Yeah? Imply onto everybody what you, Drousiotis and your brother Patroklos of Cyprus mail want to make us believe.
Except if you mean 30% of GCs not feeling friendly to TCs then i would say, being a GC and absolutely honest, that this number doesnt represent the reality as i see it. Again it might be 30% of GCs not being friendly to TCs but i would not expect more than 1% of those to actually try harming them out of pure hatred or nationalistic approach. This however should be definitely one of the precautions taken when and if a solution is found in order to ensure the safety of all people on the island.In the need anyone, TC or GC, trying to act out of hatred or nationalism should be shot down without a second thought. Afterall one killing might be enough to doom Cyprus again. 
, and i would like to ensure you that this is my honest aim too.To finally live in an independent of any external powers island. 
