Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

How about the likes of Bir , Kikapu and Miltiades who consider all Cypriots as our community , how much of Cyprus do we get ? 100 % I hope since all of you are our community , isn't that right Kik , Bir what do you say.

[Viewpoint]

How about the likes of Bir , Kikapu and Miltiades who consider all Cypriots as our community , how much of Cyprus do we get ? 100 % I hope since all of you are our community , isn't that right Kik , Bir what do you say.

You will have a choice to live in the north or south state.

[Murataga]

Well come back home my prodigal son and have a share of the spoils!

We are home . All we want is for you to return what you stole/are stealing.

Can you show me the UN resolution that says that we are stealing something? Because it is obvious that you are the criminal thieves here, not us.

To the contrary it is you that are the thieves. You stole the state (not to mention that you tried to hand it over to Greece if we hadn`t prevented it). You claim to be the state and paradxically you are treated as the state. You usurp 100% the benfits of the state on your own and use it against us. However, this is what the U.N. says about what the state should be:

Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-
“Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession;”

Are you that State? Although you are not, what does it make you to act and be treated as her while usurping all its benefits to use it against us?

[Piratis]

Well come back home my prodigal son and have a share of the spoils!

We are home . All we want is for you to return what you stole/are stealing.

Can you show me the UN resolution that says that we are stealing something? Because it is obvious that you are the criminal thieves here, not us.

So according your logic because we have more of your land than you have of ours we are thieves...well think again this island belongs to both of us, the division percentage is irrelevent when you allow for returning GCs who accept living in a TC state under a BBF.

You are thieves because you are the ones who stole our land. Until 1974 more TCs lived in Limassol than in Kerynia. You forced the GCs of Kerynia to abandon their properties at gun point, while the TCs of Limassol went to occupied areas in order to achieve their dream of partition, and not because anybody stole their land.

In fact, I have many times said that you can come back and get the 100% of your rights and lands and allow us to take the 100% of our rights and lands as well. If you were not a thief then you would accept. But what you want is not just your land, you want ours as well. That makes you a thief.

[Viewpoint]

Well come back home my prodigal son and have a share of the spoils!

We are home . All we want is for you to return what you stole/are stealing.

Can you show me the UN resolution that says that we are stealing something? Because it is obvious that you are the criminal thieves here, not us.

So according your logic because we have more of your land than you have of ours we are thieves...well think again this island belongs to both of us, the division percentage is irrelevent when you allow for returning GCs who accept living in a TC state under a BBF.

You are thieves because you are the ones who stole our land. Until 1974 more TCs lived in Limassol than in Kerynia. You forced the GCs of Kerynia to abandon their properties at gun point, while the TCs of Limassol went to occupied areas in order to achieve their dream of partition, and not because anybody stole their land.

In fact, I have many times said that you can come back and get the 100% of your rights and lands and allow us to take the 100% of our rights and lands as well. If you were not a thief then you would accept. But what you want is not just your land, you want ours as well. That makes you a thief.

Although imo you brought it upon yourselves we TCs have no problem giving back land the problem is we are unable to agree the other matters as the chasm is to wide and neither side is willing to take the first step and compromise.

[Piratis]

Well come back home my prodigal son and have a share of the spoils!

We are home . All we want is for you to return what you stole/are stealing.

Can you show me the UN resolution that says that we are stealing something? Because it is obvious that you are the criminal thieves here, not us.

To the contrary it is you that are the thieves. You stole the state (not to mention that you tried to hand it over to Greece if we hadn`t prevented it). You claim to be the state and paradxically you are treated as the state. You usurp 100% the benfits of the state on your own and use it against us. However, this is what the U.N. says about what the state should be:

Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-
“Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession;”

Are you that State? Although you are not, what does it make you to act and be treated as her while usurping all its benefits to use it against us?

And where does it say that what we do is illegal or that we are thieves? In your dream?

Until there is an agreement for something different the Republic of Cyprus is the one and only legal state in Cyprus and it is recognized as such by the UN and all the countries in the world.

It is your choice not to participate in the Republic of Cyprus and instead support the illegal criminal "trnc".

Here is one of the resolutions that talks about your illegalities:

RESOLUTION 541 (1983)

Adopted by the Security Council
on 18 November 1983


The Security Council,

Having heard the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,

Concerned at the declaration by the Turkish Cypriot authorities issued on 15 November 1983 which purports to create in independent state in northern Cyprus,

Considering that this declaration is incompatible with the 1960 Treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,

Considering therefore that the attempt to create a "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" is invalid, and will contribute to a worsening of the situation in Cyprus,

Reaffirming its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975),

Aware of the need of a solution to the Cyprus problem, based on the mission of good offices undertaken by the Secretary-General,

Affirming its continued support for the United Nations Peace- keeping Force in Cyprus,

Taking note of the Secretary-Generals statement of 17 November 1983,

1. Deplores the declaration of the Turkish Cypriot authorities of the purported secession of part of the Republic of Cyprus;

2. Considers the declaration refereed to above as legally invalid and calls for its withdrawal;

3. Calls for the urgent and effective implementation of its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975);

4. Requests the Secretary-General to peruse his mission of good offices in order to achieve the earliest possible progress towards a just and lasting settlement in Cyprus;

5. Calls upon the parties to co-operate with the Secretary- General in his mission of good offices;

6. Calls upon all states to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus;

7. Calls upon all states not to recognise any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus;

8. Calls upon all states and the two communities in Cyprus to refrain from any action which might exacerbate the situation;

9. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Security Council fully informed.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr541.htm

We have been the victims of Turkish aggression since the Turks arrived in our area 5 centuries ago and they continue with the same aggressive expansionism against us ever since.

[Kikapu]

How about the likes of Bir , Kikapu and Miltiades who consider all Cypriots as our community , how much of Cyprus do we get ? 100 % I hope since all of you are our community , isn't that right Kik , Bir what do you say.

You will have a choice to live in the north or south state.

As long as we are under one Federal Government and that neither state is going to apply Racist, Undemocratic, and Dictatorial rules to the opposing ethnic citizens, and that each citizen have exactly the same rights as the next, then I do not care where the FUCK I live, as long as the name of my country will remain to be called CYPRUS, do you.??

[Kifeas]

You appear to be a little confused, let me make it simple, GCs being on the island longer than the TCs do not give them any more rights than us.

VP, the whole thing sounds like a deaf people’s talk! You claimed that you have the right to steal and seal for exclusively your own use and benefit a large portion of our common country, in which we GCs have existed much longer that you have had; and as a reply to me telling you that you have no such right and any such demands from your part are not legitimate, you tell me that “GCs being on the island longer than the TCs do not give them any more rights than us?” Who said GCs have more rights than the TCs? Did I say this, or it is you who said that you believe you TCs have more rights than us? If you do not deliberately -nevertheless foolishly, try to twist things around, then you must be a schizophrenic!

The fact that we are divided has as much to do with your mistakes as it does mine the sooner you realize this the better it will be for everyone.

VP, the fact that we are divided is because Attila the Hun from the north illegally invaded and illegally grabbed 36% of Cyprus for his own expansionist sake and so that he can freely control and exploit the territorial waters and the condimental shelf of most of the Eastern Mediterranean, in the expense of the people of this country, using the presence of the TCs as a pretext! The same thing, the same Attila the Hun tries to do in Northern Iraq, where he uses the PKK as a pre-text in order to invade and grab the oil regions of Mosul! Remember what your historical leader Rauf bay said? He said that Cyprus is so important to Turkey that even if no TC ever existed in Cyprus, Turkey should have invented them!

Tell me why the Annan plan’s state territorial map was drawn in such a way so that the entire east and north-east coastlines of Cyprus, 50% of the coastlines of Cyprus, would fell under the so-called TC state?

Yes I do want my own state but I did go on to say under a BBF solution, …

A federation like the one we have accepted in Cyprus doesn’t mean that the states will respectively belong to the ethnic ownership of each of the two communities! It is your side’s perversion that wants to convert it into such a solution! The formula is called a bi-zonal and a bi-communal federation, simply because there will be two-zones to be governed by their permanent residents, irrespective of ethnic origin, and the central (federal) government will be based on the concept of relative and proportional bi-communality! Political equality doesn’t mean numerical equalisation between two unequal in size groups of people!

You want to retain and even make it of an absolute bi-communality in the federal (central) government, i.e. a partnership between two equated (levelled-out) communities, under the veil of a perverted political equality; and you also want to convert by-zonality into two-ethnically owned and based mini nation-states! I.e., you want to make it a solution of two strict bi-communal dimensions, a territorial one on the ground, and a political one in the central government! You want a solution that will “out of the blue” (read “virgin birth”) resemble more to a confederation between two “legitimate,” “ethnically owned,” and “historically pre-existing” nation-states!

This is not what we have accepted and this is what we will never accept! This is a solution that is not supported by the history, geography and the demographic realities of this country! It is an illegitimate claim and demand from your behalf!

where did I say GCs will be second class citizens, I think you are the one telling the lies to try and convince people that we will not treat GCs fairly in the north state under a BBF solution.

VP, you need not say it in the forum that your intention was /is to treat GCs as second class citizens! We know this is what you intent to do, so that you discourage anyone from returning back to their ancestral lands in the north, and thus retain a purely Turkified territory in the north! We know it because this was what was provided by the constitution of the so-called TC Constituent State (TCCS) that you have gotten Kofi Annan, the biggest vagabond SG in the UN history, to offer you as part of his proposed “solution” plan!

I need no evidence to prove that whatever I said above is 100% correct, simply because everything I need is stipulated in this TCC constitution that Kofi Annan and Alvara De Sotto got paid by your motherland and the British to have provided to you, in the expense of the GC’s rights in Cyprus!

Read the following extracts, and tell me where I have gotten it wrong!

Evidence No 1:

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE TURKISH CYPRIOT STATE
PREAMBLE
We, the Turkish Cypriot people,
bearing in mind that the territorial integrity, security and constitutional order of the Turkish Cypriot State is guaranteed under the Treaty of Guarantee,
sovereignly proclaim this Constitution by approval at referendum of 20 April 2004 as the Constitution of the Turkish Cypriot State.

PART I
General Principles
The Form and Characteristics of the Turkish Cypriot State
Article 1
The Turkish Cypriot State, as one of the two Constituent States of the United Cyprus Republic, which is based on the political equality, bi-zonality and equal status of the two Constituent States, representing the distinct identity of Turkish Cypriots and their equal political status in a bizonal partnership.

What one reads above?
You assume that one of the two states will ethnically belong to you, exclusively! You want the constitution of this state to only talk on your behalf as an ethnic community, and represent you, and only you, as the ethnic owners of the 30% of Cyprus’s territory! No mention or regard is paid to the fact that the people living in this part of Cyprus will also include the GCs that would wish to permanently return back to their ancestral lands! You assume that that part of Cyprus is not their country, and they should not be expressed through or represented by the above constitution! More or less like how your motherland treats it’s citizens of Kurdish origin! Need I say more? Do you want more evince of your bad will intentions?

Evidence No 2, from the constitution you wanted to enforce on the GC indigenous inhabitants of the north 30% of Cyprus, that vagabond Kofi Annan had the audacity to include as part of his “solution” proposal:

The Status of Minorities
Article 14
The State protects the rights of religious minorities, namely the Maronite, the Latin and the Armenian, residing within its boundaries and of the Greek Cypriots residing in the villages in Karpaz area, as stated in the Foundation Agreement and the Constitution of the United Cyprus Republic.

What one reads above?
That apart from the 4 villages of the Karpasia peninsula, you have no intention and you do not care or want to safeguard or protect the religious rights of the GCs that would choose to return back to their ancestral lands in the north! You have planned for them to be second class citizens, or like immigrants moving into another country, despite the fact that they were the indigenous people of these lands with a history dating back to thousands of years, even before your community appeared in Cyprus! You wanted to have the absolute right of religious liberty, and us to have no such rights, so that you discourage them from returning back to their homes and towns in the north!

Furthermore,
Evidence No 3, from the same Annan plan constitution:

Right to Education and Training
Article 65
...........
(9) The religious minorities, namely Maronites, Latin and Armenians, living in the boundaries of the State and whose mother tongue is not Turkish have the right to receive education at the primary and secondary level in their native language.

What one reads here? Only the Maronites, Latin and Armenians will have the right to receive education in their native language! No mention about the Greek Cypriots! You do not want them to have such a right, even though they have been the indigenous people of these areas and always had this right before 1974, even during the ottoman and the Venetian occupation of Cyprus and even though you always had such a right in all parts of Cyprus before 1974, as per 1960 constitution; simply because you want to discourage them and indirectly prohibit them from returning back to their lands that your motherland ethnically cleansed them from, so that the north 30% of Cyprus remains always a purely Turkified (ethnically Turkish) territory! Exactly like what your kemalist motherland does to its Kurdish citizens! Dare dispute what I am saying!

Evidence No 4, from the same Annan plan constitution:

Right to Education and Training
Article 65
..........
(4) It shall be one of the primary duties of the State to provide for the educational and training needs of the people. The State shall carry out this duty in accordance with the principles and reforms of Atatürk,

Besides not wanting to allow the GCs their religious rights and the right to education in their native language, you want to impose on them the “father of the Turks,” the founder of Turkey –a foreign to them country, and the personification of Turkish nationalism, as the guiding authority of their education! This is your concept or understanding of equal and dignified treatment of all citizens of this supposedly multicultural state! Import kemalism in education as well, and force him on the GCs too! The mask has fallen, VP!

Evidence No 5, from the same Annan plan constitution

The Unity, Official Language, Anthem and the Capital of the State
Article 3

1) The State is an indivisible whole with its people living in its boundaries.
2) The official language is Turkish.
3) The State has its own flag and an Anthem. The Turkish flag may be flown in the territory of the State subject to the relevant provisions of the Foundation Agreement and the constitution of the United Cyprus Republic.

Why only the Turkish language should be the official one in the 30% of Cyprus, in which the GCs have existed and their language was spoken for tens of centuries before any Turk had stepped foot in these areas? Why only the Turkish language, and not both Greek and Turkish should be the official ones, if the majority of the indigenous people of that part of Cyprus has traditionally been Greek speaking, and after the solution, hypothetically up to 1/3 of the Cypriot permanent residents of that state will have Greek as their native language. Why the EU has 22 official languages? Why the EU will have Turkish as one of its official languages, if you will only be 0.01% of all the EU citizens, and not the GCs who will constitute a much larger proportion of the north state’s permanent residents? The reason is obvious! You want to treat to the GCs like your motherland treats the Kurdish citizens of Turkey, i.e. second class citizens with no equal rights as Cypriots living in the north, because you want to discourage them from returning back to their lands, and thus have the whole 30% of Cyprus as a purified Turkish province.

And why only the Turkish flag will be flown? Why the Cypriot citizens of GC origin that will become the permanent residents of the north state, hypothetically up to 1/3 of the resident population of that state, should not have the same right as the other Cypriot permanent residents of the same state who are of Turkish ethnic origin? Where is the equal treatment of all the Cypriot residents of the north state, TCs and GCs alike? Another evidence of intention for treatment of GCs as second class resident citizens!

Evidence No 6, from the same constitution:

The Right to Elect, to be Elected and to Participate in a Public Referendum
Article 74
(1) It shall be the right and duty of every Cypriot citizen permanently residing in the State who has reached the age of eighteen years to vote at State elections and referenda.
(2)Every Cypriot citizen permanently residing in the State who has reached the age of 18 years and has command of its official language shall have the right to be elected to public offices of the State. To be elected, such a person shall ordinarily have resided in the State for at least three years. This right shall be regulated by law.

Now read the above very interesting part (par. 2!) The Turkish side, in its pursue to violate the GCs human and political rights, those that would have chosen to return back to their ancestral lands in t he north and thus become again permanent residents of the now to be TCC state, will be denied the right to become elected from within the place of their origin and habitation, unless the prove that they have learned the Turkish language well! Do you understand what this means? The GCs will have to remain second class citizens ancestral lands were Greek has always been the language spoke by the majority for centuries, unless they take exams to prove that they have learned good Turkish! The mainland settlers, who only appeared in Cyprus recently and will be allowed to stay, will immediately enjoy full political rights if residing in Kyrenia for example, from day one of the solution (because they speak Turkish,) but the for centuries indigenous GC people of Kyrenia, will not have such a right! The TCs will have the right to become elected in the EU parliament and their language will immediately become one of the official languages of the EU, thus they will be able to address the EU parliament in their language, even though they will only be the 0.01% of the EU population, but the GCs that will return in their own towns and villages in the north will not have such a right unless they learn another language outside their native!

Why is that? Becasue the kemalist Turkish side (Turkey and the always nationalist TC leadership) wants to exclude the GCs from having any input or influence in the north (to have been called TCC State.) They want to exclude them so that they can have a free ride, plus because they want to discourage them from returning back to their homes, and therefore the north to remain a permanent Turkified territory of Cyprus! In such a case, why should they have the 30% of Cyprus in their control and ownership?


Evidence No 7, from the same constitution:

Taking the Oath
Article 88
The deputies shall take the following oath before assuming their duties:
“I do swear upon my honour and dignity that I shall preserve the existence, rights and sovereignly exercised powers of the State within the United Cyprus Republic; that I shall be bound by the principle of the supremacy of law and by the principles of a democratic secular State, social justice and the principles of Atatürk; that I shall work for the welfare and happiness of my people; that I shall not depart from the ideal that every citizen must benefit from human rights and that I shall remain loyal to the Constitution.”

What does the Turkish side want to do here! As if not been able to become elected if a GC doesn’t speak the “official” language, was not enough, they also want to oblige and force any GC that would want to be elected as an MP of the state in which he or she will be a permanent resident, to take an oath of compliance to the “principles” of the “father of the Turks,” the leader-founder of a foreign state and the personification of Turkish nationalism! They want any GC that will dare to seek election in the local parliament of his state, to abandon his dignity and take an oath on something that he doesn’t believe and has absolutely no relationship with! They want any GC MPs to have to accept to be turkified first, in order to represent those that will want to elect them! They want to do this because they want to discourage them from running for any post in the state in which they will choose to become permanent residents, so that they will have the absolute ethnic control of this state!

Do I need to say more in order to prove that the Annan plan was a diabolical disguised partition plan? Do I need to say more in order to prove that the Annan plan was not a federation of one country with a single sovereignty and a single citizenship, like all other federations worldwide; but instead it was a disguised confederation between two diabolically pre-assumed ethnically owned and based “nation-states?” Do I need to say more in order to prove that this plan was outside the scope and context of human rights, the UN resolutions and the EU aqui? Do I need to say more in order to prove that it is not us that have cheated Mr. Verheugen, but instead it was him and Kofi Annan that have tried to cheat on us! Do I need to say more in order to prove how wise and brave Papadopoulos was to have trashed it in the bin, despite all the threats and blackmailing?

[Murataga]

@Piratis-

And where does it say that what we do is illegal or that we are thieves? In your dream?

Until there is an agreement for something different the Republic of Cyprus is the one and only legal state in Cyprus and it is recognized as such by the UN and all the countries in the world.

o.k.... I`m going to make it simple for you, but you must try to keep up:

Firstly,

Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-
“Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession;”

Now follow the arrows:

The U.N. sets forth what RoC should be Our leaders have agreed what RoC should be You are not what RoC should be neither according to the U.N. nor our Agreements You are paradoxically getting treated as the RoC although you`re not what it should be and usurping all its benefits to use it against us although you should not be allowed to. PERIOD.

The issue is quite simple: although you do not make what the RoC should be and is supposed to be recognized as, why the hell are you hijacking it, claiming to be it, being treated as it, and allowed in the meantime to usurp the benefits that go along with it to use against us? This is nothing other than hypocracy on the U.N.`s and the world`s account, and theft on your`s. This is why you are thieves and will remain to be so. You are hiding behind the political interests of other countries to legitimize your illegalities and you expect us to yield. Hell no!

[Get Real!]

OK. Have 2% back. 37% is enough for us.

I've only just realized why you said that! I don't know where I got the 39 from... Sorry!