Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Piratis are you suggesting that we are anonymous on this forum. I don't know about your but I provided persona details to join the forum

[zan]

Turkey wanted a "no" vote from TC? Are you dreaming? Turkey even replaced Denctash with Talat to get a "yes" vote from TCs. The leader of TCs had been the "president" of the pseudo state, and when Turkey decided the leader became the "prime minister" so TCs would be encouraged to vote "yes" in the Annan partition plan.

Now I have to say to you "ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS".

The British weather seems pretty stable compared to you. You guys have been arguing all along hat Denktas and Turkey worked together to secure a partition and now when it suits you you want to say that Turkey installed Talat. You are really off your rocker if you think that we cannot see such obvious twisting and turning o suit yourselves. Come on now pick one story and stick to it. I am ready for your answer which ever one you pick because it shows that you will stop at nothing to lie about realities.

The people went against Denktas and therefore Turkey to vote Talat in and then to vote YES to the Annan Plan. It is as simple as that. There must be some of your GC compatriates hat have been kicking hemselves all night because of your massive cockup on hat one Piratis. We are not surprised though so don't be too ashamed.

[BirKibrisli]

Sorry ,Zan....but I am afraid Piratis is right.

Denktash was shafted because he would not support a YES vote in the referandum...So the AKP and Erdogan got rid of him via their control of the settler vote,despite strong objections from Turkish Military and President Sezer (read,the deep state...)

Turkey needed a YES vote form the TCs to open the EU negotiations....
Some are saying that they(Turkey and Britain and Russia etc) orchestrated the Annan Plan so that the GCs would say NO,but I am not so sure....I think the GC's said NO all on their own accord...Although I cannot explain why Russia vetoed the GC demand that Turkey guarantees that any agreed plan would be implemented....Any ideas anyone????

[Kikapu]

Turkey wanted a "no" vote from TC? Are you dreaming? Turkey even replaced Denctash with Talat to get a "yes" vote from TCs. The leader of TCs had been the "president" of the pseudo state, and when Turkey decided the leader became the "prime minister" so TCs would be encouraged to vote "yes" in the Annan partition plan.

I also have to agree with Piratis on this one.

I had a conversation with "skipper" on this couple of month ago, in which I stated, that Denktash was got rid of by Turkey, because as long as Denktash was there, there was never going to be a "YES" vote by the GC's on the AP. Talat was installed to be the so called " Unification Man", and played the role, to encourage the GC's to vote "YES". The TC's voted "YES", because the whole AP was in their favour.

Turkey needed a "YES" to get themselves into the EU. They still faced many hurdles even with a "YES" vote, but at least, they would have finally unloaded the TC's and the Anatolians onto the RoC government, and stop supporting the "TRNC" financially, while keeping a hand in Cyprus. Over all, not a bad move, to remove Denktash, who was the face of stealing GC's land....about 30,000 DONÜMS. Good luck getting a "YES" vote from the GC's, with that kind of a stained record. Since the AP vote, how much of a "Unification Man" has Talat been.?? Not very much I would say!! Therefore, he was just a "front man". As my cousin's husband said, that they voted for the AP, and not for peace.

I must also say, that "skipper" did not agree with my argument. Then again, I only spoke to my cousin's husband few weeks ago, which reinforced my beliefs, even more than it did when I spoke with "skipper" 2 months ago.

[askimwos]

May I just remind the big headings in almst all Turkish newspapers after the ending of the negotiations in Bourgnstok and the revelation of the final AP? Headings like "Solution ala Turks" were all over the Turkish press. Now tell us zan, does the above show that the Turkey was against the AP? I think you are hullousinating on this one!

[the_snake_and_the_crane]

Dont expect an answer from Zan after being proved wrong!

[zan]

Ok guys, you have got me on this one....... Now who was it that asked me what "Rael-Politik" meant....................................

[iceman]

I think all of you are making a big mistake here by undermining the genuine determination for a solution of TC's pre referandum...At the time,the pressure amongst the TC's had risen so much against Denktash & his policies ,Turkey had no other option to go along because the people were so fed up and were on the edge of mutiny...Even the "deep state" in Turkey had no option cos it was either go along with the wish of TC's and diffuse the situation peacefully or oppose AKP and support Denktash against the people using force..
A clash between TC people and the army was the last thing they wanted.!!

[BirKibrisli]

I think all of you are making a big mistake here by undermining the genuine determination for a solution of TC's pre referandum...At the time,the pressure amongst the TC's had risen so much against Denktash & his policies ,Turkey had no other option to go along because the people were so fed up and were on the edge of mutiny...Even the "deep state" in Turkey had no option cos it was either go along with the wish of TC's and diffuse the situation peacefully or oppose AKP and support Denktash against the people using force..
A clash between TC people and the army was the last thing they wanted.!!

Iceman...I know there were a lot of goodwill from the TCs regarding a solution pre referandum...you are right there...But given the numbers on the ground the TCs would never carried a YES vote had the settlers been opposed.Most of the settlers are from uneducated peasant stock (no disrespect intended!) and very pliable by the AKP...It was very unfortunate that the GCs could not bring themselves to vote for the AP...It was not ideal but at least it would've been a big step towards developping understanding,trust and respect for a more democratic solution down the line...And I also accept that the TCs were very disappointed and felt rejected by the GCs after their NO...And now we need a miracle to bring us a solution. I am no friend of the AKP,but I acknowledge that we have/had the best chance for a solution with them in Ankara...Because they didn't come from that blind/unthinking Turkish nationalist mindset that says..."what we got with blood in war cannot be given up at the negotiation table"...With a heavy heart let me say 'cevirin de kaz yandi'....(turn the goose over,it is burnt!)....

[Piratis]

iceman, nobody doubts that the TCs wanted (and want) a solution. The question is what solution they wanted. They wanted a "solution" that would solve their own problems (which is natural of course). The Annan plan solved their problems, and also gave to them the 99% of their demands as well, since in practice it would legalize partition with just a small amount of land returned.

The Annan plan was not created to solve the Cyprus problem. It was created to solve the problem of Turkey, and this is why it was rushed to referenda just before Cyprus entered the EU.

The entry of Cyprus to EU would create a big problem to Turkey. First of all Cyprus would be an obstacle to the Turkish accesion to EU, and secondly the TCs would start to become frustrated that GCs continue to advance and they are stack.

So the AngloAmericans created the Annan partition plan to solve Turkey's problems. Of course they would never allow their own interests to be determined by what Cypriots would vote in the referendum. So they made their plan to suit their interests either way.

If GCs accepted the plan, then Turkey would get the 99% of their demands in Cyprus, there would be no way that Cyprus could block the Turkish accession in EU, and the TCs would be perfectly satisfied. Problem solved.

If GCs rejected the Annan plan, then they would blame the GCs and present Turkey as the "good boy" that did everything she could for a solution, therefore eliminating the Cyprus Problem as a problem in the EU accession of Turkey (or so they hopped). Also, by presenting the GCs as the reason of not finding a solution, and by giving promises and hopes to TCs about direct trade, flights or even recognition, they also solved the problem of a possible TC "revolution" against Turkey.

That was the Annan plan, the plan made to solve the problem of Turkey and NOT the Cyprus problem, which would have continued and even become bigger than ever if the Annan plan was accepted.