Cyprus-Forum.com

[joe]

For those interested....here is the proposed resolution (in Adobe PDF format, link below) that is currently being debated by the United States Congress condemning the killings of 1.5 million Armenians between 1915 and 1917 as genocide. Foreign Minister of Turkey, Mr Gul, is currently in the states lobbying to prevent the adoption of the resolution, threatening that acceptance of the resolution would harm US-Turkish relations.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... ih.txt.pdf

[growuptcs]

Can you imagine Mr. Gul threatening any lobby in the US about the Armenian genocide like he does in Turkey? Lets see if they laugh him out of the country, or lets see him threaten the media to distort it like he usually does. The brick wall is getting closer and closer.

[miltiades]

Ask VP if the Armenian genocide took place !! He will know the answer !

[bg_turk]

Since when is the US congress an expert on Ottoman history?
This is merely a political move by the congressmen (mostly democrat) to please their Armenian constituents, and it has nothing to do with historical facts. Most of these people cannot even point Armenia on the map.

[Piratis]

bg_turk why are you still trying to deny the Armenian genocide? I mean do you think anybody believes you when you are trying to hide your crimes with lame excuses? Calling your crimes "peace operations" doesn't change the facts and the results.

The fact is that what is now Turkey was before inhabited by others. The turks exterminated all of them, and the only ones left are the Kurds. If this did not happen then there would be no Turkey today.

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

You guys should read Mr Birands articule. Turkey invited an Armenian Historian and wouldnt open there archives. If they had nothing to hide they I am sure this wouldnt have happened.

[T_C]

You guys should read Mr Birands articule. Turkey invited an Armenian Historian and wouldnt open there archives. If they had nothing to hide they I am sure this wouldnt have happened.

Can you give me a link to the article so I can read it please.

As far as I know its only in the last 2 weeks that Armenian historians have agreed to investigate it. Who said Turkey wouldn't open their archives? Thats ridiculous. That must be the work of Armenian propaganda.

If anyone needs the archives I can provide them with the information they need for a mere £100 a page

Here are some samples:




(Ciphered telegram from the Ministry of the Interior to the province of Erzurum, regarding the protection of the Armenians on the roads during their deportation, the punishment of the deserters and those who attack them, and that the old road be used in the deportation.)



(Ciphered telegram from the Ministry of the Interior, to the governor of the sanjak of Urfa, regarding that necessary explanations be provided about the news that fractions between Muslims and Armenians have increased within the Urfa district and that on the other hand, the required measures were not taken.)

Actually I wont charge you anything, you can see the archives for yourself with the click of a mouse which by the way have been online since 1995!!! Click Here

But please answer me this question, why have the Armenians refused to open up their archives? And whos telling the Armenians that Turkey isn't opening up her archives? And why?

Why in the beggining did Armenians claim that 4 million had died? Why did they then agree with E-Britannicas 1916 edition that 600.000 were killed, only to raise it to millions again? Why have they up untill recently refused an investigation? Why do they never ever ever ever mention the rebellion movements that were organised in RUSSIA way before the "genocide"? Why were all the Ottomans who were tried for the Armenians claims found not guilt by the British who at the time were the enemy and occupying force? Why at the Paris Peace conference were the Armenians' claims dismissed not once but twice? Funny that their claims at the time were dismissed only for them to pass a resolution when they needed the Armenian votes 100 years later

Why have the Armenians numerously used dodgy evidence to back up their claims, such as the "Hitler quote" and why did a historian of Armenian decent tell people to disregard this "evidence"? (Check the article below)

Now you don't have to answer all that but what my main question to you is; Considering all the "Why's", why should Turkey be found guilty without a fair trial bearing in mind the fact that the Armenians have lied, changed their stories and put forward unfounded documents and evidence to support their claims on many occasions? I just dont see why they should! Furthermore I don't see why Turkey would deny something that the Ottomans were responsible for, after all Turkey was set up after 1915 and Ataturk fought against those same Ottomans for the Turkish Republic we have today.

It's all good to believe everything people say but it's another thing to actually research it from both sides. I'm not saying Armenians didn't get killed and no matter how you look at it weather it was 1.5 million people or 600k people, thats a lot of people who died. I'm just saying that after researching and evaluating everything for myself I have come to the conclusion that the Armenians also have something to hide, and their stories definately contradict themselves throughout history so I don't blame Turkey for denying something that others have completely fabricated and exagerated against them.

"The Hitler Quote"
Historian of Armenian Descent Says Frequently Used Hitler Quote Is Nothing But a Forgery
Baden-Baden, W. Germany - Dr. Robert John, a historian and political analyst of Armenian descent from New York City, declared here that a commonly used quotation of an alleged statement by Adolf Hitler concerning the Armenian massacres was a forgery and should not be used.

Dr. John demonstrated how he had traced the original document in the Military Branch of the National Archives of the U.S.A. after being handed a folder bearing the quotation at a rally outside the United Nations building in New York following the Turkish-Greek war in Cyprus.

The quotation: "Our strength is in our quickness and our brutality.... For the time being I have sent to the east only Death's Heads units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women and children... Who talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?"

Dr. John showed slides of this document, undated and unsigned, with some words cut out of the last page. The statement was supposed to have been made at a meeting of the top German staff of the Obersalzberg on August 22, 1939. The document was released to the international press covering the Nuremberg War Crimes trials on Friday, November 23, 1945. The trials had commenced that Monday. The document was one of several made available to the press that day. Two-hundred-fifty copies were given to press correspondents, but only five copies were given to the 17 defense counsels - 24 hours before the Court convened on Monday!

Much later in the trial, the German defense lawyers were able to introduce the most complete account of the address, taken down by German Admiral Hermann Boehm, which runs to 12 pages in translation. There is no mention of the Armenians or the rest of the "quotation."

Dr. Robert John said he believed that the document was introduced to create a climate of hate which was needed to stifle the protests of eminent American jurists such as Sen. R. Taft and Chief Justice Harland Stone. He had discussed it with Gen. Telford Taylor, who had said, "I know the document you mean, I don't know its provenance, and I have not used it in my own work."

"We all believe that violence breeds violence," said Dr. John. "There has been an increase in Armenian violence since this false inflammatory statement was given publicly. Films like 'The Day After' are a form of violence, and should not be shown to children - who are unable to evaluate their content. Films about the "Holocaust" are a form of violence and are harmful to us as well as to Jews. There is a high probability that the surprising violence and brutality shown by the Israelis towards the Palestinians, may be a result of being frequently exposed to these old scenes. Just as parents who abuse their children have often been abused themselves."

Dr. John briefly traced the history of atrocity propaganda, particularly from the British - and later - American view. Real atrocities certainly occurred, but the deliberate fabrication and dissemination of atrocity stories increased the probability of their occurring. "Hate hurts the hater and hated. We are still living in the haze of distortions and actual horrors which occurred so long ago." he commented.

"The time has come to stop psychologically damaging ourselves and our children by "Holocaust studies" and Holocaust" museums," he continued. "The Armenian, the Jew, or the African, should not damage their development with a continual conditioning of hate, neither should spurious guilt be visited upon others. These negative preoccupations and obsessions are obstructing our evolution."

Dr. John, whose paper is entitled "Information and Misinformation," hails from Armenian parents who moved from New Julla, Iran to India. His father changed his name from Hovhanes to "John," and subsequently the family moved to England. Dr. John studies law in England and holds a doctoral degree in political science from London University. He is presently a contributor to the London, England based The Middle East Magazine monthly, and in addition to giving lectures, is a frequent contributor to numerous magazines and publications. He is also the author of Palestine Diary, and specializes in Middle Eastern issues, including the Palestinian issue.

Source:The Armenian Reporter, Vol. XVII, NO. 40 August 2, 1984
P.O. Box 600, Fresh Meadows, N.Y. Telephone: (718) 380-363

[karma]

I really wonder why nobody cares about the turkish people killed by british, french, italians, greeks, armenians and others during 1914-1922...
it really sounds wierd and unfair.

[T_C]

I really wonder why nobody cares about the turkish people killed by british, french, italians, greeks, armenians and others during 1914-1922...
it really sounds wierd and unfair.

Thank you karma, this is what I mean, at least Turkey admits 300k Armenians got killed (even if the actual number was higher).

What about all the muslims that were killed, not one word uttered for them, they never mention the Hunchak and Dashnak rebellion movements like it's irrelevant . There is so much evidece these rebellion movements existed from documents to the killings of governors, police chiefs and even the attempted assassination of Sultan Abdulhamid II.

The Armeninans claim to have "just" formed a resistance but these rebellion movements were formed as early as 1887-90. We know they formed a resistance yet they fail to mention where they got sooooo many guns and weapons from? Russia! Since both of these movements were organised in Russia.

The guns the Armenians "didn't have"





The muslim deaths completely forgotten, disregarded and denied...






Russian soldiers with UN-ARMED(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Armenians! (Remeber the fact that Armenians even deny having any involvement with the Russians while Turkey was in a war with them )



Yet again more poor "un-armed" Armenians fighting against the Ottomans with "knifes" and "bare hands"..




To think that people are just passing resolutions to condemn Turkey by skimming through just one side of the story makes me want to spew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ARMENIAN CYPRIOT]

You guys should read Mr Birands articule. Turkey invited an Armenian Historian and wouldnt open there archives. If they had nothing to hide they I am sure this wouldnt have happened.

Can you give me a link to the article so I can read it please.

As far as I know its only in the last 2 weeks that Armenian historians have agreed to investigate it. Who said Turkey wouldn't open their archives? Thats ridiculous. That must be the work of Armenian propaganda.

If anyone needs the archives I can provide them with the information they need for a mere £100 a page

Here are some samples:




(Ciphered telegram from the Ministry of the Interior to the province of Erzurum, regarding the protection of the Armenians on the roads during their deportation, the punishment of the deserters and those who attack them, and that the old road be used in the deportation.)



(Ciphered telegram from the Ministry of the Interior, to the governor of the sanjak of Urfa, regarding that necessary explanations be provided about the news that fractions between Muslims and Armenians have increased within the Urfa district and that on the other hand, the required measures were not taken.)

Actually I wont charge you anything, you can see the archives for yourself with the click of a mouse which by the way have been online since 1995!!! Click Here

But please answer me this question, why have the Armenians refused to open up their archives? And whos telling the Armenians that Turkey isn't opening up her archives? And why?

Why in the beggining did Armenians claim that 4 million had died? Why did they then agree with E-Britannicas 1916 edition that 600.000 were killed, only to raise it to millions again? Why have they up untill recently refused an investigation? Why do they never ever ever ever mention the rebellion movements that were organised in RUSSIA way before the "genocide"? Why were all the Ottomans who were tried for the Armenians claims found not guilt by the British who at the time were the enemy and occupying force? Why at the Paris Peace conference were the Armenians' claims dismissed not once but twice? Funny that their claims at the time were dismissed only for them to pass a resolution when they needed the Armenian votes 100 years later

Why have the Armenians numerously used dodgy evidence to back up their claims, such as the "Hitler quote" and why did a historian of Armenian decent tell people to disregard this "evidence"? (Check the article below)

Now you don't have to answer all that but what my main question to you is; Considering all the "Why's", why should Turkey be found guilty without a fair trial bearing in mind the fact that the Armenians have lied, changed their stories and put forward unfounded documents and evidence to support their claims on many occasions? I just dont see why they should! Furthermore I don't see why Turkey would deny something that the Ottomans were responsible for, after all Turkey was set up after 1915 and Ataturk fought against those same Ottomans for the Turkish Republic we have today.

It's all good to believe everything people say but it's another thing to actually research it from both sides. I'm not saying Armenians didn't get killed and no matter how you look at it weather it was 1.5 million people or 600k people, thats a lot of people who died. I'm just saying that after researching and evaluating everything for myself I have come to the conclusion that the Armenians also have something to hide, and their stories definately contradict themselves throughout history so I don't blame Turkey for denying something that others have completely fabricated and exagerated against them.

"The Hitler Quote"
Historian of Armenian Descent Says Frequently Used Hitler Quote Is Nothing But a Forgery
Baden-Baden, W. Germany - Dr. Robert John, a historian and political analyst of Armenian descent from New York City, declared here that a commonly used quotation of an alleged statement by Adolf Hitler concerning the Armenian massacres was a forgery and should not be used.

Dr. John demonstrated how he had traced the original document in the Military Branch of the National Archives of the U.S.A. after being handed a folder bearing the quotation at a rally outside the United Nations building in New York following the Turkish-Greek war in Cyprus.

The quotation: "Our strength is in our quickness and our brutality.... For the time being I have sent to the east only Death's Heads units, with the order to kill without pity or mercy all men, women and children... Who talks nowadays of the extermination of the Armenians?"

Dr. John showed slides of this document, undated and unsigned, with some words cut out of the last page. The statement was supposed to have been made at a meeting of the top German staff of the Obersalzberg on August 22, 1939. The document was released to the international press covering the Nuremberg War Crimes trials on Friday, November 23, 1945. The trials had commenced that Monday. The document was one of several made available to the press that day. Two-hundred-fifty copies were given to press correspondents, but only five copies were given to the 17 defense counsels - 24 hours before the Court convened on Monday!

Much later in the trial, the German defense lawyers were able to introduce the most complete account of the address, taken down by German Admiral Hermann Boehm, which runs to 12 pages in translation. There is no mention of the Armenians or the rest of the "quotation."

Dr. Robert John said he believed that the document was introduced to create a climate of hate which was needed to stifle the protests of eminent American jurists such as Sen. R. Taft and Chief Justice Harland Stone. He had discussed it with Gen. Telford Taylor, who had said, "I know the document you mean, I don't know its provenance, and I have not used it in my own work."

"We all believe that violence breeds violence," said Dr. John. "There has been an increase in Armenian violence since this false inflammatory statement was given publicly. Films like 'The Day After' are a form of violence, and should not be shown to children - who are unable to evaluate their content. Films about the "Holocaust" are a form of violence and are harmful to us as well as to Jews. There is a high probability that the surprising violence and brutality shown by the Israelis towards the Palestinians, may be a result of being frequently exposed to these old scenes. Just as parents who abuse their children have often been abused themselves."

Dr. John briefly traced the history of atrocity propaganda, particularly from the British - and later - American view. Real atrocities certainly occurred, but the deliberate fabrication and dissemination of atrocity stories increased the probability of their occurring. "Hate hurts the hater and hated. We are still living in the haze of distortions and actual horrors which occurred so long ago." he commented.

"The time has come to stop psychologically damaging ourselves and our children by "Holocaust studies" and Holocaust" museums," he continued. "The Armenian, the Jew, or the African, should not damage their development with a continual conditioning of hate, neither should spurious guilt be visited upon others. These negative preoccupations and obsessions are obstructing our evolution."

Dr. John, whose paper is entitled "Information and Misinformation," hails from Armenian parents who moved from New Julla, Iran to India. His father changed his name from Hovhanes to "John," and subsequently the family moved to England. Dr. John studies law in England and holds a doctoral degree in political science from London University. He is presently a contributor to the London, England based The Middle East Magazine monthly, and in addition to giving lectures, is a frequent contributor to numerous magazines and publications. He is also the author of Palestine Diary, and specializes in Middle Eastern issues, including the Palestinian issue.

Source:The Armenian Reporter, Vol. XVII, NO. 40 August 2, 1984
P.O. Box 600, Fresh Meadows, N.Y. Telephone: (718) 380-363

Sure I shall find it and post it for you. Doesnt Mr Birand work for the Turkish Daily news and CNN-TURK??