Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

We are talking ifs not what we have done if we were to take the steps I suggest do you feel GCs would come live as a minority with us in the TRNC your answer was noi no GC would return. Please enlighten us as to why?

[bill cobbett]

I, for one, would be happy to return to my family's lands if there was no Turkish army and the north wasn't run as a police state.

[Pyrpolizer]

What are you talking about VP?
The whole discussion was what your side is doing to convince the GCs that partition is the answer.
There are no ifs and buts.

If your side believes partition is the answer then it must take the necessary steps to convince us about it.
Now once again I am asking what steps (from all those you mentioned) your side has actually has taken to convince us?

[zan]

What are you talking about VP?
The whole discussion was what your side is doing to convince the GCs that partition is the answer.
There are no ifs and buts.

If your side believes partition is the answer then it must take the necessary steps to convince us about it.
Now once again I am asking what steps (from all those you mentioned) your side has actually has taken to convince us?

In response to your RoC convincing us that unification is the best answer...........an equal amount.

[Viewpoint]

What are you talking about VP?
The whole discussion was what your side is doing to convince the GCs that partition is the answer.
There are no ifs and buts.

If your side believes partition is the answer then it must take the necessary steps to convince us about it.
Now once again I am asking what steps (from all those you mentioned) your side has actually has taken to convince us?

Opened borders,
Direct telephone connection,
GC school
Allowed Church masses
Property Commission
Changed property law 159
Returned or compensated 11 GCs applicants more on the way
Voted yes to plan you consider partition
Allow long stays
Allow GCs to fly from Ercan spring to mind....

what have you GCs done for Unification?

[Pyrpolizer]

You didn't understand VP.

I asked what steps has your side taken to convince us PARTITION is the answer.

[Viewpoint]

You didn't understand VP.

I asked what steps has your side taken to convince us PARTITION is the answer.

And have stated the above, you cam also add;

maintain the peace for over 33 years
Got rid of Denktas
Elected Talat

these are all factors which are showing we are more tollerant and that their is nothing to fear of the North and that GCs could also claim their property and live with us partitioned.

Your turn....

[Viewpoint]

Pyro do you mean this thread???

[zan]

LALE SARIIBRAHIMOGLU [email protected] Diplomacy
Two-state solution for Cyprus?



It is true that none of the parties, including Turkey, Greece, the UK and the United States, as well as the UN and EU, involved with the decades-long conflict on the eastern Mediterranean island of Cyprus, would care to talk openly about the formal partition of the island. But at least some parties to the conflict, including Turkey, are well aware that whatever efforts might be spent on uniting the Turkish and the Greek Cypriot communities on the island under a single state, it appears that in the end there will be two separate states on the island.
Since Turkey's 1974 intervention in Cyprus to thwart an Athens-backed coup to unite the island with mainland Greece, the Turkish and the Greek Cypriot communities have lived apart peacefully. As the idea of separation of the two communities on the island has become more obvious in past years, now more than ever all efforts to unite the island have become meaningless.
To begin with, the EU accepted the Greek Cypriot part of the island as a member in May 2004 and as the sole representative of the island. This happened despite overwhelming Turkish Cypriot approval in April 2004 of a UN plan for a federated state for Cyprus -- the so-called Annan plan named after former UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan -- while the majority of Greek Cypriots rejected the plan.
As Annan once commented last year, it was a major strategic mistake for the EU to accept Greek Cyprus as a member of the Union despite the fact that Turkish Cypriots had approved the plan.
How could one expect the Greek Cypriot administration to not use its veto card at the EU to block entry talks with Turkey while treating the Turkish community of the island as a minority group dependent on Turkey? Indeed, since its entry to the EU, Greek Cypriots have taken every opportunity to block Turkey's accession negotiations with the Union. Behind the latest row over the Greek Cypriot attempt to start oil and gas exploration work around the island under an agreement it signed with Lebanon lies the Greek Cypriot policy of showing to the world that it is the only sovereign state on the island.
The Turkish Foreign Ministry responded to the Greek Cypriot decision by saying in a statement on Tuesday that Turkey had "legitimate and legal rights and interests" in the eastern Mediterranean and insisted Turkish Cypriots also had a say on oil and gas rights concerning the island. The Turkish Cypriot administration similarly challenged the Greek Cypriot decision.
So what? Nothing will come of this latest row except more tension, to be diffused soon. It is also true that Turkey and the Turkish Cypriot establishment have made serious mistakes on Cyprus policies, always ending up playing into the hands of Greece and the international community.
Though it has come late, the current AK Party government's serious efforts to solve the Cyprus problem, culminating with Turkish Cypriot approval of the Annan plan, are a clear example of one of Ankara's rare proactive foreign policy stands. But this Ankara-backed Cyprus solution was sabotaged by the EU decision to accept the Greek Cypriot administration as a member state.
Nowadays there have been increased indications that we have been moving towards a two-state solution. As one Turkish diplomat told me recently, "We can't prevent the natural flow of the river."
I was reminded of this statement when I saw the news that 65 percent of Turkish Cypriots had said "yes" to a two-state formula for Cyprus. According to a recent poll released by the Cyprus Social and Economic Research Center (KADEM) released by the Turkish Cypriot news agency TAK on Jan. 30, this is the first time 65 percent of Turkish Cypriots approved a two-state solution while only 20 percent preferred a federated solution.
If we respect the will of the people, we should take the Turkish Cypriot people's choice for the separation of the two communities seriously and work toward that end.

[Pyrpolizer]

We came to this point in our discussion

How can you be so sure GCs will not want their property rights or return? do you really believe all them will sell? you are not being very realistic, one minute you are all crying ho my ancestral lands and now just because the table has been turned and you will live as a minority in the TRNC which by the way is what you offer us you suddenly have forgotten all those crocodile tears and want to sell up, funny that never thought GC claims on property was very sincere just another play to take control of the whole island and force pure majority GC rule. The % for TC land ownership can be evaluated by an independent body, taking into account disputes, 1963, GC return, plus don't forget our share of state land this figure will easily reach over 20%.

And I told you we reached an almost discussable point. I asked you this.

OK Viewpoint, we almost reached a discussable point.
Now tell me what have YOU DONE to persuade the GCs accept partition? Tell me have you returned any land to RoC? Have you accomodated any GC come there and live as a normal citizen under an acceptable law (like the EU law), get his lands and properties, get voting rights, have you lessened the number of the Turkish army, have you sent any settlers back, have you returned the ghost town of Famagusta? Have you called for an independent committee to judge the matter of land ownership?

NB. I hope you do not revert with ridiculous answers like yes we established a property committtee while at the same time your own leaders say it cannot return not even 1% of properties....

You by passed my questions (for which obviously your side did almost nothing) and you told me this

Opened borders,
Direct telephone connection,
GC school
Allowed Church masses
Property Commission
Changed property law 159
Returned or compensated 11 GCs applicants more on the way
Voted yes to plan you consider partition
Allow long stays
Allow GCs to fly from Ercan spring to mind...

This my dear VP is evidence to convince the GCs that 99% of occupation is still there alive and kicking, NOT evidence that partition is the best solution through which we would be benefited the maximum possible. Therefore such proposals to solve the Cyprus problem can only have one treatment: Straight into the dustbin.

If I were to comment on those points, the border were not opened to serve the GCs, there is no direct telephone line other than the one the UN themselves established, the school (horay you let us the human right of education after you knocked out 1800 out of the 2000 GCs from Karpasia, you allowed a couple of churches to operate out of our 500 most of which were turned to dancing halls, and henneries etc etc. In general everything that provided you profit either directly or indirectly on the expense of us….