Cyprus-Forum.com

[T_C]

The RoC flag doesnt make us feel any better than the TRNC flag does you, and for all the same reasons you mentioned above...

Theres hardly any TC which can identify with the RoC flag, we cant have NO FLAG so we must have something. I personally don't mind KNOWING full well the TRNC flag is bound to end up as history at some point but untill we find a solution it stays.

Lets just get over this stupidness we have much more to worry about than flags.

[Piratis]

The Republic of Cyprus flag has the shape of our island in it, no crosses or crescents, it's colors are cooper and green, no blue or red, and it was in fact designed by a Turkish Cypriot. That perfectly symbolizes what Republic of Cyprus is all about. The country of all Cypriots.

On the contrary the "trnc" and its flag symbolize nothing more than our ethnic cleansing in order to create a Turkish country in Cyprus.

It is no coincidence that Republic of Cyprus is a real recognized state, while the "trnc" a pseudo state.

I believe this is the essence of the Cyprus problem. Do the TCs accept one country for all Cypriots, or they want a separate "Turkish Cyprus" part on our expense?

[T_C]

Oh come off it Piratis I was in the RoC yesterday and as lovely as it was it looked nothing more than a Greek country in Cyprus!!!

Cyprus will only be Cypriot when both our communities come together so lets not kid ourselves that either of our sides truly represent Cypriots. In the short drive we took I saw a Greek flag and a statue of the man who wrote the Greek anthem which is our equivalent of Turkish flags and Atatürk statues.

There is only a trace of TCs in RoC and a trace of GCs in TRNC.

[Get Real!]

What I cannot figure out is where you got that piece of shit that you embedded onto it from. Did you have to take a photo of your own shit that you made somewhere outside a toilet bowl, and then transferred it into your PC?

Why don't you meet up with Sotos and write up a technical report about this delicate procedure!

[Get Real!]

Oh come off it Piratis I was in the RoC yesterday and as lovely as it was it looked nothing more than a Greek country in Cyprus!!!

Cyprus will only be Cypriot when both our communities come together so lets not kid ourselves that either of our sides truly represent Cypriots. In the short drive we took I saw a Greek flag and a statue of the man who wrote the Greek anthem which is our equivalent of Turkish flags and Atatürk statues.

There is only a trace of TCs in RoC and a trace of GCs in TRNC.

I pointed out the Dionisios Solomos statue to T_C for a laugh and he looked at it with a frown!

[Piratis]

Oh come off it Piratis I was in the RoC yesterday and as lovely as it was it looked nothing more than a Greek country in Cyprus!!!

If by that you mean the Greek flags, then I have to inform you that using the Greek and Turkish flags on public buildings and places was unfortunately part of the 1960 agreements. I would gladly agree to remove that parameter from our constitution.

If you are talking about the people and the culture thought, thats how Cyprus has been for 1000s of years since Cyprus has a Greek speaking majority who follows the Greek traditions from the time of the Gods of Olympus. What exactly do you want to do about that except from the fact that TCs and GCs should mix together and end the illegally enforced partition of our country?

Cyprus will only be Cypriot when both our communities come together so lets not kid ourselves that either of our sides truly represent Cypriots.

The RoC truly represents Cypriots. TCs can stop their efforts for partition and come to take their positions in RoC at any day they choose.
On the other hand the so called "trnc" doesn't represent any Cypriots, since about 50% of the people that vote for it are Turks and not Cypriots and it is directly controlled by Ankara.

[Murataga]

Piratis wrote-

The Republic of Cyprus flag has the shape of our island in it, no crosses or crescents, it's colors are cooper and green, no blue or red, and it was in fact designed by a Turkish Cypriot. That perfectly symbolizes what Republic of Cyprus is all about. The country of all Cypriots.

Yes. Unfortunately it waves next to the flag of Greece and is sang by the national anthem of Greece in a part of Cyprus full of Greek C.s for a government that is purely Greek C. That is the textbook definition of usurpation. So save us the rhetoric.

Piratis wrote-

It is no coincidence that Republic of Cyprus is a real recognized state, while the "trnc" a pseudo state.

What Roc was supposed to be until 1963 is provided by the Agreements and Constitution. The GC administration has violated it in the name of annexing Cyprus Greece. How it should exist today is given explicitly by the U.N. :

Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-

“Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession;”

and RoC is no way close to this. So if there is anything illegitimate/illegal going on that is the GC administration`s usurpation of the title of RoC by stealing what rightfully belongs to the TCs and using it against the TC community to Hellenize Cyprus and strangulate the TC community even more.


Piratis wrote-

I believe this is the essence of the Cyprus problem. Do the TCs accept one country for all Cypriots, or they want a separate "Turkish Cyprus" part on our expense?

The essence of the problem was your futile attempts to annex Cyprus to Greeece back in the day. Here is the proof:

The Greek Cypriot House of Representatives Journal of June 27 1967, reported that, on June 26 the deputies had unanimously passed a resolution declaring that the struggle for ENOSIS would continue until the union of Cyprus with the motherland, Greece, was achieved:

"Interpreting the age-long aspirations of the Greeks of Cyprus, the House declares that despite any adverse circumstances it will not suspend the struggle being conducted with the support of all Greeks, until this struggle ends in success through the union of the whole and undivided Cyprus with the motherland, without any intermediary stage."

The following are official statements of Mr. Kyprianou released to the public via Greek Cypriot PIO with the corresponding dates:

16 July 1966 Greek Cypriot PIO press release no. 13
The national leadership, which voices the wishes of all the people, is not prepared to accept any compromise solution adulterating the people’s national restoration. The Cypriot people want union with Greece. The Greek Cypriot people will continue to struggle having as their standard the Greek flag, Greek virtues and ideals.

1 April 1967 Greek Cypriot PIO press release no. 4

Cyprus is now an independent and sovereign state and, therefore, the struggle for union with Greece is easier and shorter than before.

24 March 1971 Greek Cypriot PIO press release no. 7

The unity of purpose, and policy existing between and Greece is absolute. The line of policy by the two Governments is one and the same. Neither Cyprus nor Greece can possibly accept solutions that might, sooner or later, be considered by the people and history, and by posterity, as nationally inadmissible compromises…

19 February 1973, from Archbishop Makarios III statement in Le Point

I have struggles for the union of Cyprus with Greece, and Enosis will always be my deep national aspiration as it is the aspiration of all Greek Cypriots. My national creed has never changed and my career as a national leader has showed no inconsistency or contradiction. I have accepted independence instead of Enosis because certain external conditions and factors have not allowed a free choice.

6 April 1973, from Archbishop Makarios III interview with John Harrison of the London Daily Express:

"Union of Cyprus with Greece has always been the national aspiration of the Greek Cypriots. This national feeling has deep roots and the Greek Cypriots would favor Enosis under any circumstances. "

14 March 1971, Archbishop Makarios III speech at Yialousa

Cyprus is Greek. Cyprus has been Greek since the dawn of its history, and it will remain Greek. Greek and undivided we have taken it over, Greek and undivided we shall preserve it. Greek and undivided we shall deliver it to Greece.

Archbishop Makarios III, in an interview with the Frankfurter Rundschau, reported in Cyprus Mail, 16 May 1974

"Enosis had always been for the Greek Cypriots a deeprooted national aspiration. To me independence is a comprimise. In other words, if I had a free choice between ENOSIS and independence, I would support ENOSIS."

Today it is your futile attempt to Hellenize Cyprus, and your leadership is not afraid to declare it. Here are just a few examples that Tassos made only publicly:

Cyprus Mail April 22, 2007 visit to Greece

“We [Cyprus] do not want, nor do we seek to transfer the weight of our problems to the shoulders of Greece. But, we do want our Greek brothers to realise that we in Cyprus, as we resist Turkish expansionism and fight for the national and physical survival of Greek Hellenism, are forward defenders of Hellenism in its widest meaning and dimension."

After a memorial service at the military Tombs of Makedonitissa, July 21, 2005

" ...the time factor will not make us accept a solution which will not secure the natural and national survival of Hellenism in Cyprus"

Wednesday, 11 February, 2004, Athens

"The Cypriot people can rest assured that I have no other concern but to best serve their interests, especially Cypriot Hellenism at this critical phase"

1967, in a speech delivered on U.N. Day

"Today, the meaning of freedom for us is the consolidation of national identity in the outpost of Hellenism"

oh! This one is my favourite (from the official website of the Embassy of Greece to the U.S.):

Greek Parliament ratified on February 10 the European Union’s enlargement treaty, which concerns the accession of 10 new member- states, including the Republic of Cyprus.
Prime Minister Costas Simitis and Cyprus President Tassos Papadopoulos termed the ratification a historic landmark in the course of Hellenism.

For you, "unification" means a Hellenic Republic although the status of the TC community is explicitly defined in the U.N. to be a seperate community with a seperate zone with politically equal status. The minute you accept that Cyprus is not Hellenic and that it is Cypriot with unique/seperate Greek and Turkish identity the problem will be solved.

[DT.]

qlkl

[DT.]

What Roc was supposed to be until 1963 is provided by the Agreements and Constitution. The GC administration has violated it in the name of annexing Cyprus Greece. How it should exist today is given explicitly by the U.N. :

Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-

“Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession;”

and RoC is no way close to this. So if there is anything illegitimate/illegal going on that is the GC administration`s usurpation of the title of RoC by stealing what rightfully belongs to the TCs and using it against the TC community to Hellenize Cyprus and strangulate the TC community even more.

Thats a resolution on what the settlement of the cyprus problem should be like not the actual present day govt of cyprus...why can't people read anymore?

Piratis wrote-

I believe this is the essence of the Cyprus problem. Do the TCs accept one country for all Cypriots, or they want a separate "Turkish Cyprus" part on our expense?

The essence of the problem was your futile attempts to annex Cyprus to Greeece back in the day.

and you can find me one turkish cypriot during those days who was not a supporter of Taksim?

For you, "unification" means a Hellenic Republic although the status of the TC community is explicitly defined in the U.N. to be a seperate community with a seperate zone with politically equal status. The minute you accept that Cyprus is not Hellenic and that it is Cypriot with unique/seperate Greek and Turkish identity the problem will be solved.

[/quote]

we've accepted a bi-zonal federal solution, you've requested a bi=zonal 2 state confederation. You are presently seeking recognition for a separate state.

[Murataga]

What Roc was supposed to be until 1963 is provided by the Agreements and Constitution. The GC administration has violated it in the name of annexing Cyprus Greece. How it should exist today is given explicitly by the U.N. :

Resolution 750 (April 1992) (which has been reaffirmed annually since then)-

“Reaffirms the position set out in resolutions 649 (1990) of March 12 1990 and 716 (1991) October 11 1991 that a Cyprus settlement must be based on a State of Cyprus with a single sovereignty and international personality and a single citizenship, with its independence and territorial integrity safeguarded, and comprising two politically equal communities as defined in Paragraph 11 of Secretary-General’s report in a bi-communal and bi-zonal federation, and that such a settlement must exclude union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession;”

and RoC is no way close to this. So if there is anything illegitimate/illegal going on that is the GC administration`s usurpation of the title of RoC by stealing what rightfully belongs to the TCs and using it against the TC community to Hellenize Cyprus and strangulate the TC community even more.

Thats a resolution on what the settlement of the cyprus problem should be like not the actual present day govt of cyprus...why can't people read anymore?

That is a resolution defining the State of Cyprus which simultaneously reaffirms that the current recognized state is not what it is supposed to be according to the U.N. If what you have is recognized, legitimate, legal and acceptable by the whole world, than why point to what it should be thus simultaneously declaring incompatible with the principles of the U.N. Furthermore, why allow one of the two communities to solely represent and negotiate on its behalf against the other community on what a bi-communal state it is supposed to become? There is no logic to this and it is hypocrisy of the worst kind. It is international political interests overriding the principles of law, legitimacy and logic, and we as TCs have to cope with it.

Piratis wrote-

I believe this is the essence of the Cyprus problem. Do the TCs accept one country for all Cypriots, or they want a separate "Turkish Cyprus" part on our expense?

The essence of the problem was your futile attempts to annex Cyprus to Greeece back in the day.

and you can find me one turkish cypriot during those days who was not a supporter of Taksim?

This is an absolute perversion of history and circumstances. You are making it sound like you wanted ENOSIS and we wanted Taksim, so we are even. NO! That is completely wrong. ENOSIS was offensive in nature and Taksim was defensive. It was the GC administration that made their policy to annex the whole of Cyprus to Greece first and stuck by this at all times which in return gave the most inalienable right to the TCs to resist. Outnumbered 1 to 4, and constantly living under this threat, it was the TCs` right to defend themselves. Proceeding events and the actions of the GCs have shown how justified the TCs were for being concerned regarding the GC aggression. Do not compare or confuse the aggression of one side with the defense of the other. When you try to hit a person and he covers himself, you can not say that “the two are in a conflict and or the victim had plans to fight all along”. ENOSIS is you saying “Cyprus is going to be handed over to Greece”, Taksim is us saying “if so we are not going along so give us a part of Cyprus”. The fact that EOKA was established (to terminate anything that stood in the way of ENOSIS) before TMT (first 1955, latter 1958) is in itself the most revealing evidence alone that you wanted ENOSIS first and we, as a reaction afterwards, resisted. With a president declaring (4 September 1963):

“ Unless this small Turkish Community forming a part of the Turkish race which has been the terrible enemy of Hellenism is expelled, the duty of the heroes of EOKA can never be considered terminated. Either whole of Cyprus is to be terminated with Greece or it will become a Holocaust”

and making similar statements that I have posted above, you dare to manipulate on our need for protecting ourselves from becoming subjects of Greece? Your attempts in trying put the TC victim with the GC aggressor in the same category will just not do here.

For you, "unification" means a Hellenic Republic although the status of the TC community is explicitly defined in the U.N. to be a seperate community with a seperate zone with politically equal status. The minute you accept that Cyprus is not Hellenic and that it is Cypriot with unique/seperate Greek and Turkish identity the problem will be solved.

we've accepted a bi-zonal federal solution, you've requested a bi=zonal 2 state confederation. You are presently seeking recognition for a separate state.

Get your facts straight regarding what we want. Agreement between Tassos Papadopoulos and Mehmet Ali Talat on 8 July 2006 (commonly referred as the 8 July Agreement) which specifically states the following in its first article:

1. Commitment to the unification of Cyprus based on a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation and political equality, as set out in the relevant Security Council resolutions.

However, we can not and will not yield on our right to independence and to decide our future for ourselves in the absence of agreement on the establishment of a federal state with principles based on bi-communality, bi-zonality and the political equality of the two communities. We do not want partition but we will not allow your intervention to our autonomy in Cyprus either.