Cyprus-Forum.com

[free_cyprus]

polis
you wrote
Yeah right! You try to make sweeping statments such as these, try to make them intelligent. i can see you do not have any at all soo called inteligance , im sorry to hear that your mind takes sides your mind can only digest what s being fed in there by your parents your teachers and friends around you ................. you do not have the luxury to think independently..............and you read the 1960 agreement fully you will understand what im talking about

[GAVCARoCOM]

Selam,Gavcar...

Can I ask you the meaning of Gavcar? I am sure I knew what it was once in Cyprus,but can't think of it.It is driving me mad! Can you help???

Merhaba birkibrisli ,
Gavcar is a kindof grass which is wild and grow on the mountains and some villages(also one of seasonal mashroom) . I choose this name for my website but when i see no GC registered on my website i decide to cahnge the name to www.Freebay.tk Because of many registereds are English . I m enclosing the picture.

[GAVCARoCOM]

i m sure it was between 1963-70s
I m impressed with your knowladge of the Cyprus history
And i beleive you are a GC
Can you please also tell me what do you think about annan plan and for you which way is to find solition ?

Also what about the villages burnt by eoka-b and the people who they are forced to sell their lands . Can you please make a comment on this one as well. I really want to know your opinion. Thanks

I have expressed my views a lot of times regarding the Annan plan but in brief here are my views:

The Annan plan was the most comprehensive plan that ever appeared in the 32 years since the turkish invation and it is sad that this initiative did not end in the way it was supposed to end - being the solution of the CyProb. There are a number of factors that played a part in this failure. Here are the ones that I consider the most important:

a) The US and UK factor: Both the US and UK assummed that the GC would accept the plan no matter how many negative elements it will include. They viewed Turkey (not the TCs) as the side that is more likely to reject the plan as it hadn't been long since Turkey was stating that the CyProb was solved with the trnc established. As a result of the above they ended up changing the 1st plan, that was welcomed by the GCs as a good start to negotiate and built on, to plan number 5 which more or less satisfied the 11 points set forward by mr Erdogan. This made an already negative climate regarding the absence of progress in the negotiations between January 2004 and May 2004 even more negative.

b) The absence of time and space for manouvering for the GC side between the 4th and 5th plan. It is worth saying that in plans 1, 2 and 3 the GCs felt that there was some space to manouvre and this was the point in the plan that allowed GCs residing in the TC statelet to vote and be elected for the TC statelet representatives in the parliament. The GC side were planning to exchange this right that the 3rd annan plan gave them and which was seen as a red line for Turkey with the right for more people to return and get their properties back and for the complete demilitarisation of the island and the abolition of the guarantor states point. Unfortunately, the UN with the backing of the US and the UK took away this manouvring space without making any equivant value concessions to the GC side. As a result the end product was rightly described as unbalanced.

c) The weakness or lack of will of the TC leaders to align themselves with the GC side in demanding a number of things that would benefit both communities. One of these was the abolition of the clause in the plan that gave the UK sovereingty over the sea and airspace surounding their military bases in Dekelia and Akrotiri as well as the Guarantor state clause that if abolished would mean real independence.

d) I am a person that supported the plan until its 3rd form with the hope that there would have been changes that would have pushed the GCs to vote for it. Unfortunately the last round of negotiations in Bourgenstock failed to fullfil these expectations. I will remind you of the climate of the next day after the release of the 5th plan - the Turkish news papers coming out with frontpages stating "Solution Ala Turka", the GC newspapers moarning for another missed chance and for the 5th plan not giving the chance to the GCs to vote Yes but also Afrika's reaction to the 5th plan that was a frontpage stating that the plan does not allow for a solution as everything that Turkey asked she got with no real concessions to the GC side.

I have to say that at the time I was sharing a flat with a TC friend and we both were litteraly hanging over the radio to listen how the negotiations were developing. I will never forget the look on his face when the 5th plan was release - the guy looked at me and he said "the fucking bastards (refering to US and Turkey), they are trying to partition the island by forcing GCs to say No".

In the past I posted 4 main things that if changed there will definetely be a yes vote from the GC side without the TCs loosing anything. These were:

1. Complete demilitarisation of the island (we don't need the 900 and 600 Greek and Turkish troops staying on the island indefinetely)

2. The abolition of the Guaranto powers clause. Instead we can have an International UN force on the island until Turkey enters the EU. Cyprus is a member of the EU and things have changed since the 1960. Guarantor powers mean absence of independence.

3. The issue of functionality of the solution - we don't need a veto in everyday government administration. Lets share the ministries and government services so a to have the president/CEO of each service/ministry taking the decisions and not being vetoed by the vice-president/CEO. TCs can take 30-40% of these CEO positions and GCs take the rest.

4. UK military bases - no sea or airspace given to them. If this happens we will end up with another 2 countries on the island. One in Dekelia and one in Akrotiri.

I am not sure if all the above can change in the current environment - the only people that can change the above are the TCs if they revolt against Turkey and ask for these changes so as to be a solution. The power/decision making though is with the Turkish Military and I am not sure that the TCs can do this. However, I believe that 1,3, and 4 can be changed if both the GC and TCs demand it and maybe put a deadline, say 2015 when the Guarantee Agreement cease to exist.

On the second part of your question regarding eoka b, yes there have been atrocities by those thags and Tcs are right to complain about it. These people followed their own agenda and more should have been done to be dealt with. Don't forget though that when Makarios asked Greece to withraw all the Greek officers and army from Cyprus in 1974, the Greek Junta's response was to organise the 15 July coup. Nobody says that TC people did not suffer at the time, however, they suffered from 2 enemies, eoka b and the tmt as well. There are well documented executions of TCs that did not align themselves with the tmt agenda - Kavazoglou is one of them. Also don't forget that eoka b killed more GCs than it did TCs. I consider both these terrorist organisations as being the long arms of Greece and Turkey but also of CIA in Cyprus and against the interests of all Cypriot people and RoC in general.

[BirKibrisli]

Yes Birkibrisli, I know. Unforutanately we live in a geographical region that is stratigically controlled by a nation that is about 100 years behind the civilised nations of the world and happen to have a very eager strategic minority right in our midst one of whom is call birki that are extremely keen to sacrifice their lives and their futures and that of their families and their children just to align with its goals. Yes, my friend, I bet you I have a far more thorough understanding of what happened to Cypriot society starting from the 1920's that you and your like can even imagine.

You couldn't be more wrong,at least in my case,dear Polis.
Stick around and you will find out for yourself.
In the mean time please do enlighten me about what happened to the Cypriot society between December,1963 and July,1974,to see if it matches my recollection of the events...

[BirKibrisli]

Selam,Gavcar...

Can I ask you the meaning of Gavcar? I am sure I knew what it was once in Cyprus,but can't think of it.It is driving me mad! Can you help???

Merhaba birkibrisli ,
Gavcar is a kindof grass which is wild and grow on the mountains and some villages(also one of seasonal mashroom) . I choose this name for my website but when i see no GC registered on my website i decide to cahnge the name to www.Freebay.tk Because of many registereds are English . I m enclosing the picture.

Thanks,mate.Now I know.There were losts of gavcar where I was born in Cyprus...

[GAVCARoCOM]

This is not exactly same but the flower it is very smilar . make sure you dont missunderstand that its Lapsana . Smilar to dill but wild one

[BirKibrisli]

This is not exactly same but the flower it is very smilar . make sure you dont missunderstand that its Lapsana . Smilar to dill but wild one

Lapsana rings an even louder bell...My grandmother used to cook it I think... It was growing wild everywhere. Oh,Cyprus of our childhood!

[Bananiot]

Lapsana or sinapia (mesaoria area) or better still, sinapis. At around this time of the year the countryside of Cyprus belongs to sinapis. This is the reason yellow is the predominant colour. Soon, however, the red of poppy will make its appearance and add a touch of glamour to the scene.

[miltiades]

Birkibrisli , Paphos villages were so simple and plain all those years ago when we were growing up , no radio , tv and only" karagiozi " now and then to entertain us. I was addicted , like all kids were then , to my catapults and hunting birds , we knew no better and it was part of life then , watching the little birds in my garden now all around the bird feed I provide for them makes me realize one fundamental essence of life , that given the right circumstances we can all be cruel and yet we can also be kind , I prefer the kindness above all. I often say to those of us who bring the past up that those days were the past , people change .

Another hobby of mine was" pirilli ! marbles , and of course "scatoulika " and "lingri" modern day cricket to some extend. Such memories and such happy ones too .
In 1953 my mother was killed in the earthquake and we were taken to the Limassol orphanage where I met my T/C mates , Ace I will never forget. There, we interacted as children do , oblivious of the ensuing conflicts and hatred that followed. I'm glad and happy that none of this poison has ever entered my body and can look at my Cypriot brothers as my people without questioning what language they speak.

[Kikapu]

Another hobby of mine was" pirilli ! marbles , and of course "scatoulika " and "lingri" modern day cricket to some extend. Such memories and such happy ones too .
.

Yes Miltiades, I remember playing "lingri". It was more dangerous than cricket. You held a long stick, about a meter long, with a end shaped like a screw driver, placed over a small piece of stick, anout12 inched, in a shape of a cross, and you would pull the long stick against the smaller one, until the small stick would be above the long one, and same time, toss the small one in the air, then try to hit the small one "broad side" to send it flying in the air, to allow others to try and catch it, while spinning in the air. It was like a small spear coming at you, rotating in the air.

One way to build one's reflexes I guess.

As for catapults, we did not have such thing as a Y shape catapult. The rubber ran over our thumb, while the other hand pulled to bring the other end with the stone in, close to the eye, and when ready, release the stone, and at the same time, bring down the thumb, so that the stone flew over it. Needless to say, sometimes we were just a fraction of a second too slow, and the stone would smash against the thumb nail, which would turn black, and stay that way for couple of weeks.

Sorry to say, not too many birds got away.

What is a "scatoulika" anyway.