Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

If you stop preventing legality to return by continuing the illegal occupation of Cyprus then you can get all your constitutional rights.

So finally you do accept STEALING our rights??

What you get is the consequence of your illegal actions. Stop the occupation, give us back all our rights and get all of yours. Why you do not accept? You are the one who insist on illegality, not me.

[iceman]

What you get is the consequence of your illegal actions. Stop the occupation, give us back all our rights and get all of yours.

Nooooo...what you GOT is the consequence of YOUR illegal actions,now like a spoiled kid start crying "give me my marbles back,i dont want to play no more"...You should have thought of that back in 1963 before f*cking up everything...

[Piratis]

Here is my answer to that:

First of all I have to make something very clear:

I believe that we should leave the past behind, we should forgive each other, stop all illegalities and move ahead with a united democratic country without racist discriminations and with respect to the human rights of all Cypriots.

Unfortunately I notice that there some people that insist on using a tiny and selective part of the past as an excuse for the continuation of illegalities and their demand for a "solution" that will be based on racist discrimination of people based on their ethnic background (which is something that exists in no democratic country in the world)

To those people Greek Cypriots deserved the violations of their human rights for the last 32 years and they deserve to be convicted for eternal violation of their human rights in a country that discriminates against them because of their race.

The fact is however that Turks in Cyprus have committed 100 times more crimes against Greek Cypriots than the other way around.

Greek Cypriots have been the majority on the island of Cyprus for 3000+ years. Their interaction with Turks starts in the 15th century, were the Turks attacked our island. This also answers the question "Who started it" for anybody that thinks that this is important:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.

So now it is clear how the interaction of Turks with Greek Cypriots started in Cyprus, and the question "Who started it" is answered as well.

What followed were 300 years of Ottoman rule in Cyprus. During these 3 centuries Greek Cypriots were oppressed second category citizens. They had to pay multiple times the taxes of muslims and their testimony in courts was not accepted. Whenever they tried to revolt against their oppressors they were slaughtered.

So here we have a period were Turks were oppressing and killing Greeks in Cyprus. The result of this period was 300 years of oppression against GCs and 10s of thousands of Greek Cypriots dead.

The next "round" of conflict between the two communities was at the end of the British rule in Cyprus, and then from 63 to 68. During this period extremists from both sides were committing crimes and atrocities.

This is the only period that TCs remember, but even here they remember only their own casualties and not the crimes that they had committed against GCs.

So this is a period were both sides had about an equal number of casualties, some 100s for each side.

Then in 1974 the illegal coupists overthrow our president and Turkey found the excuse to invade Cyprus. No TC was killed by the coupists before the invasion had started, but only after.
The result of the coup/invasion was 6000 GCs dead and 200.000 GCs ethnically cleansed. On the other side the TCs had only a couple of 100s of victims.

The next period is the 32 years of illegal occupation and insistence from Turkey to violate international law and human rights. This continues until today.

Conclusion:
1) The Turks "started it" in the 15th century
2) The Turks have committed much much more crimes against Greek Cypriots.
3) The Turks insist on their crimes today
4) Greek Cypriots have committed crimes as well, but only a tiny fraction of the crimes that the Turks have committed.

Still, Greek Cypriots are more than willing to put all these behind as long as we are not provoked by people that remember only the 1% of history that suits that in order to prove that Greek Cypriots are the evil people that deserve even more crimes against them.

Therefore I ask from people on this forum to either:

1) Leave the past behind. Do not try to excuse crimes and illegalities in 2006 with events that happened in the past. Concentrate on how we can find a solution that will respect all Cypriots equally without racist discriminations and human right violations.

Or, if doing (1) is impossible for you then at least:

2) If you believe that the past should be used to determine who is the "good" and who is the "bad" one and that this should be the basis of solving the Cyprus problem (instead of democracy, human rights and legality, that I propose) then at least use the whole history and not the tiny bits that suit you.

[Kikapu]

What you get is the consequence of your illegal actions. Stop the occupation, give us back all our rights and get all of yours.

Nooooo...what you GOT is the consequence of YOUR illegal actions,now like a spoiled kid start crying "give me my marbles back,i dont want to play no more"...You should have thought of that back in 1963 before f*cking up everything...

Iceman,

What is it with you.?

Do you want to blame what others fathers did in the past on the new generation who had nothing to do with anything at all or what.?

If so, you better start pointing fingers to the people in your generation ( I assume you're young and confused) of being guilty on everything your father and uncles may have done in the past also.

Is this your form of justice or what?

If this is the way you think, then I can say for certainty, that you do not belong amongst civilized nations and people, because your answer to everything is to blame and paint everyone with the same tainted brush so that you can justify, what ever it is that you want to justify.

If on the other hand, you want to be constructive and look at who did what and when, then we can all move forward, rather than being stuck in the past.

I would like to hear, what sufferings you have personally suffered, between 1963-74, to have such anger towards the Greek Cypriots, which are your own citizens after all.

[GreekForumer]

iceman in the Turkish constitution they say there is a Kurdish minority? Who is a minority is about numbers. You don't write it in constitutions! So now tell us what Piratis asked you and stop avoiding it!

Kurds were not co founders of the Turkish Republic and never had the constitutional rights Turkish Cypriots have in the Republic of Cyprus...The ones you stole from us in 1963..

How grossly dismissive of the Kurds. If it wasn't for the Kurds, the Turkish Republic as it is today, would not exist. The WW1 victors awarded the Kurds some land of their own, Kurdistan. The Kurds then ally with the Turks to fight the WW1 victors. (?? Yes, they fought the powers who gave them the land!!). After the Greeks are removed from Asia Minor, the Turks then destroy the Kurdish leadership and embark on cultural genocide campaign against the Kurds. You know, banning Kurdish language, newspapers, "Mountain Turk" and all that. What happened to the Kurdistan that was given to the Kurds ? Did the Kurds fight and die for their own destruction ?

This is truly a bizarre historical episode.

What if the Kurds knew the Turks would backstab them ? Would they have allied with the Greeks to defeat the Turks ?

So iceman, if the Kurds were not co founders of the Republic (in Spirit or whatever) then what were they ? How do you explain why they fought for their own destruction ?

[shahmaran]

What you get is the consequence of your illegal actions. Stop the occupation, give us back all our rights and get all of yours.

Nooooo...what you GOT is the consequence of YOUR illegal actions,now like a spoiled kid start crying "give me my marbles back,i dont want to play no more"...You should have thought of that back in 1963 before f*cking up everything...

Iceman,

What is it with you.?

Do you want to blame what others fathers did in the past on the new generation who had nothing to do with anything at all or what.?

If so, you better start pointing fingers to the people in your generation ( I assume you're young and confused) of being guilty on everything your father and uncles may have done in the past also.

Is this your form of justice or what?

If this is the way you think, then I can say for certainty, that you do not belong amongst civilized nations and people, because your answer to everything is to blame and paint everyone with the same tainted brush so that you can justify, what ever it is that you want to justify.

If on the other hand, you want to be constructive and look at who did what and when, then we can all move forward, rather than being stuck in the past.

I would like to hear, what sufferings you have personally suffered, between 1963-74, to have such anger towards the Greek Cypriots, which are your own citizens after all.

Isn't that what exactly Pistilos is doing?

oh no i see, he is ever so forgiving that he "conveniently" forgets the past and concentrates on the future, nice move

Hey Pistilos, simple question, i didn't take your properties, why do i have to suffer?

[shahmaran]

iceman in the Turkish constitution they say there is a Kurdish minority? Who is a minority is about numbers. You don't write it in constitutions! So now tell us what Piratis asked you and stop avoiding it!

Kurds were not co founders of the Turkish Republic and never had the constitutional rights Turkish Cypriots have in the Republic of Cyprus...The ones you stole from us in 1963..

How grossly dismissive of the Kurds. If it wasn't for the Kurds, the Turkish Republic as it is today, would not exist. The WW1 victors awarded the Kurds some land of their own, Kurdistan. The Kurds then ally with the Turks to fight the WW1 victors. (?? Yes, they fought the powers who gave them the land!!). After the Greeks are removed from Asia Minor, the Turks then destroy the Kurdish leadership and embark on cultural genocide campaign against the Kurds. You know, banning Kurdish language, newspapers, "Mountain Turk" and all that. What happened to the Kurdistan that was given to the Kurds ? Did the Kurds fight and die for their own destruction ?

This is truly a bizarre historical episode.

What if the Kurds knew the Turks would backstab them ? Would they have allied with the Greeks to defeat the Turks ?

So iceman, if the Kurds were not co founders of the Republic (in Spirit or whatever) then what were they ? How do you explain why they fought for their own destruction ?

Oh look its the REAL paid propagandist, and he is back!

Turkey fought many "backstabbing" Kurds during the war as well, just like the Armenians, not ALL Kurds were after Kurdistan, the ones who are are either supporting PKK or are there training as we speak, you can cleverly try and twist history to juxtapose the 2 scenarios in order for them to serve your petty little story, however only fools would buy your crap!

[GreekForumer]

not ALL Kurds were after Kurdistan

Agreed. But they did not ask for extinction either. Did Turkey embark on a cultural genocide or not ?

[GAVCARoCOM]

I dont understand why people bringing other country problems here .
Say Turkey have problem with Hatay , Kurds ++++
and Greece have problems with Macedonians (they cant share the Alexander) .

Whatever . We have to stick our country and another 100 years (to piratis) we will talk same things again and again 100000s time.
I m going to do barbaque now and take my dog for a walk . Good luck with your propagandas.

[shahmaran]

not ALL Kurds were after Kurdistan

Agreed. But they did not ask for extinction either. Did Turkey embark on a cultural genocide or not ?

Extinction? WTF are you talking about, who is extinct?

Turkey fought against anyone who fell for the bullshit of the Brits and the French and foolishly thought they had an opportunity to get their chunk of land, including the Greeks!

What have you got to say about the way the Thracian Turks are being treated in Greece, TODAY?