Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

What exactly do you want me to do? Not to respond to the LIES of those that are trying to present the GC community as the "evil" and themselves as the "Virgin Mary" to excuse their demand to be rewarded on the expense of the whole GC community?

I want you to show more empathy towards the TCs,and not to give the impression that their pain and suffering were insignificant compared to the GCs.As I said we all suffer in an individual way,and it is no consolation to the mothers or sisters of those killed or exiled or whatever to tell them that more people on the othe side suffered for longer.It makes you look very coldhearted and blind to the plight of most of your compatriots from the other community. By all means respond to the "lies" and put your own case without trying to quantify the suffering on a general community level.If 200,000 GCs were ethnically cleansed from their birth places,and 60,000 TCs suffered the same fate,that means 260,000 people (Cypriots) suffered the pain and the indignity of human right abuse,full stop.We should argue that no one should've suffered in this inhumane way,and we should all feel ashamed that this was allowed to happen in our homeland.This is the way to build empathy,understanding and trust,the necessary ingredients for reunification.

If the past is going to be used to determine who is going to be rewarded and who punished, then the ones who should be punished are the TCs and Turks since their crimes against us have been more in both quantity and time. However I do not support that anybody should be rewarded or punished based on what happened in the past. On the contrary I support that everybody should get the 100% of their human, legal, and democratic rights and make a new start leaving the bad past behind.

The past should not be used to determine who is going to be punished or rewarded.We should look at the past objectively and learn the lessons necessary to avoid making the same mistakes. Because once you start looking for blame or punishment you will inevitably fall into the "us and them" trap which makes it impossible to empathise or sympathise for the other side.

This goes for everyone else too who want to use the historical events to justify present wrongs.We all know that two wrongs do not make one right in any case. If as Cypriots we keep blaming each other for the wrong done by our forefathers,be it 50 years ago or 350 years ago,we are only playing into the hands of those who want to keep us divided forever for their own selfish reasons...

[BirKibrisli]

Piratis my dear friend , just as long as you insist it is them and us , an acceptable solution would never be found.
The T/Cs are part of Cyprus , they are just as much the rightful owners as you and I are . I have lived for only 45 years in the UK and yet I consider that the UK is my country too, no English person will justifiably consider me a "foreigner" .My children were born in the UK , are they too "foreigners" , you make it sound , by using words such as ""since the day you set your foot on our island "" that the T/Cs are foreigners in Cyprus , that Bir born in Paphos is a mere remnant of the Ottoman Empire !!
I have the utmost respect for common sense and logic , attributes that make Bir stand out amongst us , to include him with VP in this paragraph """ because you are so greedy that even the 100% of your rights is not enough ""
is an insult not only to him but to myself also who share his constructive and logical vision for Cyprus.

Wise,compassionate and sensible as usual,dear miltiades.
I thank you for your clear sight and your infectious humanity...

[Viewpoint]

What exactly do you want me to do? Not to respond to the LIES of those that are trying to present the GC community as the "evil" and themselves as the "Virgin Mary" to excuse their demand to be rewarded on the expense of the whole GC community?

I want you to show more empathy towards the TCs,and not to give the impression that their pain and suffering were insignificant compared to the GCs.As I said we all suffer in an individual way,and it is no consolation to the mothers or sisters of those killed or exiled or whatever to tell them that more people on the othe side suffered for longer.It makes you look very coldhearted and blind to the plight of most of your compatriots from the other community. By all means respond to the "lies" and put your own case without trying to quantify the suffering on a general community level.If 200,000 GCs were ethnically cleansed from their birth places,and 60,000 TCs suffered the same fate,that means 260,000 people (Cypriots) suffered the pain and the indignity of human right abuse,full stop.We should argue that no one should've suffered in this inhumane way,and we should all feel ashamed that this was allowed to happen in our homeland.This is the way to build empathy,understanding and trust,the necessary ingredients for reunification.

If the past is going to be used to determine who is going to be rewarded and who punished, then the ones who should be punished are the TCs and Turks since their crimes against us have been more in both quantity and time. However I do not support that anybody should be rewarded or punished based on what happened in the past. On the contrary I support that everybody should get the 100% of their human, legal, and democratic rights and make a new start leaving the bad past behind.

The past should not be used to determine who is going to be punished or rewarded.We should look at the past objectively and learn the lessons necessary to avoid making the same mistakes. Because once you start looking for blame or punishment you will inevitably fall into the "us and them" trap which makes it impossible to empathise or sympathise for the other side.

This goes for everyone else too who want to use the historical events to justify present wrongs.We all know that two wrongs do not make one right in any case. If as Cypriots we keep blaming each other for the wrong done by our forefathers,be it 50 years ago or 350 years ago,we are only playing into the hands of those who want to keep us divided forever for their own selfish reasons...

Great post Bir.

[Piratis]

Bir, can you answer me straight please. Do you think that TCs should gain on the loss of GCs human and legal rights? Would you consider something that would attempt to close the Cyprus problem in such a way a "solution".

I want you to show more empathy towards the TCs

And how do you want me to do that? By accepting the lie that TCs are the innocent victims and GCs the aggressors and thats why now the TCs have to gain on the loss of GCs? Tell me Bir.
VP didn't come here to talk about the past to get compassion. He talks about the past trying to find excuses to commit yet more crimes and illegalities against us.

This is the way to build empathy,understanding and trust,the necessary ingredients for reunification.

The necessary ingredient is one: Change of balance of power. As long as Turkey has the power to enforce crimes and illegalities in Cyprus they will. Their excuses only have their imagination as the limit (= unlimited) and people like VP will always have some lame excuse for supporting crimes and illegalities no matter what we do or say.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, can you answer me straight please. Do you think that TCs should gain on the loss of GCs human and legal rights? Would you consider something that would attempt to close the Cyprus problem in such a way a "solution".

I want you to show more empathy towards the TCs

And how do you want me to do that? By accepting the lie that TCs are the innocent victims and GCs the aggressors and thats why now the TCs have to gain on the loss of GCs? Tell me Bir.
VP didn't come here to talk about the past to get compassion. He talks about the past trying to find excuses to commit yet more crimes and illegalities against us.

This is the way to build empathy,understanding and trust,the necessary ingredients for reunification.

The necessary ingredient is one: Change of balance of power. As long as Turkey has the power to enforce crimes and illegalities in Cyprus they will. Their excuses only have their imagination as the limit (= unlimited) and people like VP will always have some lame excuse for supporting crimes and illegalities no matter what we do or say.

No,Piratis...TCs should not gain on the loss of GCs human rights.
And any solution that will be based on such an unfair situation could not possibly be a lasting one.The solution should give everybody some sense of satisfaction and closure. I thought I made that clear on many ocassion.

And you don't have to accept that the GCs are the only villains in this conflict,which is blatantly not true. This is how I want you to show more empathy to the TCs:Do not dismiss their pain and suffering as inconsequential,or insignificant because it happened to less of them.Don't use words like "a drop in the ocean" or "GCs suffered more or longer" because it makes you seem coldhearted and callous,which you are not.
I know what you are trying to say,and you have every right to push your points,but please try to do it in a more sensitive way,without alienating most of the TCs.

What I say applies to VP as well. He/She also need to be more sensitive about his choice of words. Lets all agree on one thing.Both communities have suffered terribly from this bloody conflict,and most of us are still suffering in many different ways.If we can acknowledge that and show some empathy and understanding,it will be huge step towards mutual trust and respect...

[humanist]

right behind you 100% Birkibrisli

[miltiades]

VPs wrote:
"""""This is your right no one is denying you this but what you have to accept is the reality of the situation and the will of the people which at the current time does not correspond with yours, unless measures a taken by both sides to chnage the cuurent momentum partition will arrive one day, its will be out of your control and at this rate you will be the ones demanding this as you will come to the concluson that the north is now part of Turkey thats why time is not in the GCs favor. """"

A part of Turkey you say , this is indeed IS your dream , you admit it . Therefore you are not Cypriots , not even T/Cs but mainland Turks, I'm one of those who is not only convinced that there is no VP but a team working for the Turkish mainland propaganda team , but willing to challenge you to prove me wrong.

Cyprus is not Turkey , neither is Greece , when will you understand that there are Cypriots who will defend the independence of their birth country , and I'm talking politically here so no kicking my head in , which brings me to your earlier comment on T/C buying you a meal if you give them bread but kicking your head in if you slap their face ???? How chillingly childish , is this what they taught you in North London when you were growing up in London , and that goes for the entire team.

[Viewpoint]

miltiades

A part of Turkey you say , this is indeed IS your dream , you admit it . Therefore you are not Cypriots , not even T/Cs but mainland Turks, I'm one of those who is not only convinced that there is no VP but a team working for the Turkish mainland propaganda team , but willing to challenge you to prove me wrong.

Let me get this right you feel its my dream to become part of Turkey?, then you know nothing about what I have been saying, hear this its the lesser of the 2 evils as the alternative which you will not like to hear is incomprehensible to many TCs living in a GC state run by GCs as a minority would be unacceptable and the only way forward towards your dream would be for GCs to be more proactive and create conditions that would draw the TC community towards them rather than the current policies which only serve to alienate and push TCs deeper into the lap of Turkey. This is what you should be concentrating on getting you own leadership to be more proactive in bringing the 2 sides together but I am 100% certain that even you question their sincerity in wanting what you want.

Can you tell everyone what you will do when I prove you wrong and make you look like a total idiot for the continuation of your silly game with the pack mentality you have clearly displayed over the past weeks?

Cyprus is not Turkey , neither is Greece , when will you understand that there are Cypriots who will defend the independence of their birth country , and I'm talking politically here so no kicking my head in , which brings me to your earlier comment on T/C buying you a meal if you give them bread but kicking your head in if you slap their face ???? How chillingly childish , is this what they taught you in North London when you were growing up in London , and that goes for the entire team.

This simple as you put it analogy was given this way so even you could understand the TC mentality, they are beautiful kind people very giving and caring but when crossed they see red and will react with an enraged temper which you witnessed in 1974, this is the anger which you GCs would be better off not challenging or disturbing and learn to encourage the caring and giving side of TCs.

I have never lived in North London although I do have fond memories of going to buy Turkish goodies from the bakers on Green Lanes which were not available where my family and I lived.