Cyprus-Forum.com

[ken910]

read in the lines yesss its a known fact just the greeks are in denial as always

[GreekForumer]

read in the lines yesss its a known fact just the greeks are in denial as always

On the contrary, it is the Turks who are famous for denial. In fact, the US Congress looks like giving THE TRUTH a helping hand next month. Check out Google news !

[askimwos]

After all those discussions about the past and the majority of the forum members posting about the need to leave the past behind here we are arguing about who suffered the most and who is the victim of all this.

Why should people try to measure something that cannot be measured. Human pain, grief and loss are surely intangible things and no matter what people say its not a matter of whether one community lost 6000 and the other 500. I ask everybody to say which of those families have suffered most...well the answer is that it cannot be measured. So piratis your argument about who suffered most is not a serious one.

For the TCs brothers, that reacted on what piratis has said about the TCs crying all the time about being the victims, I say where is your humanity and pride? You have to also appreciate the pain and the suffering of the other side before demanding for the misfortune of TCs to be appreciated.

People from both communities suffered and continue to suffer until today because of what happend in the past. Trying to score points at each other does not make the suffering of any of the two communities any less.

[T_C]

After all those discussions about the past and the majority of the forum members posting about the need to leave the past behind here we are arguing about who suffered the most and who is the victim of all this.

Why should people try to measure something that cannot be measured. Human pain, grief and loss are surely intangible things and no matter what people say its not a matter of whether one community lost 6000 and the other 500. I ask everybody to say which of those families have suffered most...well the answer is that it cannot be measured. So piratis your argument about who suffered most is not a serious one.

For the TCs brothers, that reacted on what piratis has said about the TCs crying all the time about being the victims, I say where is your humanity and pride? You have to also appreciate the pain and the suffering of the other side before demanding for the misfortune of TCs to be appreciated.

People from both communities suffered and continue to suffer until today because of what happend in the past. Trying to score points at each other does not make the suffering of any of the two communities any less.

Well said Askimwos!!!

[Sotos]

askimwos is correct. But isn't the Turks who are using the past as an excuse? They talk as if they are the only victims and that gives them the right to occupy our country to punish us!!

[askimwos]

Well sotos, nobody has the right to punish nobody. We all agree that Turkey is occupying part of Cyprus and has no right to do so even if we accept what TCs say about Turkey being a guarantor etc.

It is right to call for all foreign troops to leave the island but we all know that international politics don't work like this. I don't believe that there are many TCs that want to be under the Turkish Army rule and regardless of they say they know that you cannot have democracy and freedom and at the same time have to get the army's permission in order to open a gate at the green line. There are some TCs on this forum that are in denial of the above facts but I am sure this is just a reaction to the way that some things are said by GCs. If I was a TCs and I was forced to leave my home after the invation because I didn't feel safe and move to the north ofcourse I would take offence on someone calling me a thief because I was given a GC house to stay.

In life there are more colours than black and white and people should take care to put themselves in the other side's situation in order to appreciate this.

As far as the minority/community status is concerned, I believe that the discussion should stop here. The 1960 constitution clearly states that there are two communities on the island with equal political status. There are also the 1977 and 1979 agreements that clearly state that the solution will be based on the bicomunal bizonal federation model. Where there is an agreement signed any discussion is of no substance.

[BirKibrisli]

You talk a lot of sense,askimwos gardas...
Have we not had enough of dragging in the past and who did more wrong to who and who started it all...???To be honest I am sick in the stomach from hearing all this.If we want to solve this problem,we need to start empathising with each other.

I want to hear some TCs say Turkey is now an occupying force,no matter how the whole operation started.
And I want to hear some GCs say RoC has been occupied by the GCs since 1963,and this was not fair on the TCs.

Then we can put our heads together and talk about how to end this mess.
Gcs should think about what guarantees they can offer the TCs to make them feel safe and wanted and welcome in their own country.And TCs should think about the pain and suffering of the GC refugees and the families of the missing,and what could be done to compensate these people and give them some sense of justice.

After that we can talk about establishing a Commission for Truth and Reconciliation to look at and accept and appologise for all the human rights violations suffered by both sides.

Then we can perhaps talk about how the TCs felt rejected and dejected by the NO vote from GCs at the referandum.And how the GCs felt the Annan plan was only legalising the injustices suffered. Then onto talking about how we can satisfy both sides concerns and the best way to reunify our homeland.All this talk of the past wrongs and all the accusations are doing nothing towards improving understanding and trust between our communities.If you want the status quo to remain then you are on the right track...

[free_cyprus]

if we want to solve this problem we need to get rid of the idea of being greeks and turks on the island as well as geting rid of anything turkish and greek from the island books flags generals and especialy those feckers in power who call themselves cypriots in reality they are traiters to cypriot people becouse they devide us

[Murataga]

Piratis, Piratis…. I see you have made a mess here. Where to start from for cleaning it up… I also see you are getting “flashy” with the threats; but I`ll get to this at the end...

Your initial comment stated that “Turkey was for partition…”. I tried to explain to you that Turkey was not for partition, and that it supported a federal state granting the TCs their legal partnership status. In this context I presented you evidence. As far as the map you showed with the “No Girlfriend?” website promotion underneath it… it means nothing within the context of this discussion (given that it is even true).

As far as you accusations stating that we are a minority in TRNC due to immigrants from Anatolia... Where do you think that TCs originally came from to Cyprus? What you don`t understand is we are them and they are us.

TCs are not a minority in Cyprus; they are the finding partners. GCs have agreed to this and signed the 1959 Agreements in accordance with this. So stop referring to countries with minorities, because the situation in Cyprus is far from it. It should be crystal clear to any logical mind that if Turkey wanted Cyprus partitioned or owned, it would have been done a long time ago.

U.N. resolutions accepted without the presence of TCs mean nothing. They are political, and have been implemented due to the diplomatic interests of other countries. Slavery, was recognized by the whole world, it was legal, it was practiced and it was promoted… until the 20th century. Simply because it served the interests of the countries that recognized it. Looking back at it, what does the recognition of slavery by states and governments mean to us today? So, the current resolutions do not make your case necessarily “just” especially given that you got them under the hijacked title of the “government of RoC” and in the absence of TCs. As Zan said these resolutions are being reviewed by many today in the world. The Organization of the Islamic Conference with its 57 member countries (residing over 86% of world`s oil reserves) has already acknowledged TRNC as a constituent state in Cyprus. The presidents of Turkic states have presented goodwill letters to Turkey stating that they are prepared to cooperate to “full-measures” in Turkey`s struggle in Cyprus. The EU is quite tired with the GC administrations spoiled whining, and is putting them under tremendous pressure to initiate direct trade with us. I won’t even start with Great Britain and he U.S.

You keep referring to the Kurds in Turkey when you realize that your arguement is weak and does not make sense. As I have told you before, the situation in Turkey with the Kurds is COMPLETELY difeerent than what you are desperately trying to refer to in Cyprus. I would gladly discuss this withyou, ofcourse within the context of the Greeks` illegal treatment of true Republic of Macedonia, and the inhumane treatment of the TRUE Macedonians, Turks and Albanians in Greece, whenever you like. However, this forum is established for discussing the Cyprus problem. So I suggest you either PM me about the matter or maintain your silence.

Finally, you stated:
In 63 you were the ones who started the bloodshed and you killed more GCs than the other way around.
But in Crete they exterminated all the Turks. And in Turkey they exterminated most of the Greeks. So maybe in Cyprus we should also exterminate all the Turks in a peace operation like those that Turkey does.

For the first part: No, in 63 and in the whole Cyprus conflict, GCs were the ones that started the political and forceful illegalities. However, they were shell-shocked against the stiff resistance of the Turks.

As far as your unfortunate threat in the second part: (1) let`s not get ugly (2) but if you must: you know where to find us....

[Piratis]

Murataga, Turkey doesn't want partition, pigs fly, the moon is made of cheese etc. Sorry, but I can not waste my time arguing for something that is so obvious.

About TCs being the "founding fathers" and being a minority the two things are totally IRRELEVANT. I am one of the "founding fathers" of a company and I have 5% of it. There is another partner that has 70%. Can I say my shares are not minority shares because I was a "founding father"? So stop confusing irrelevant things.
If you are or not a minority depends on the numbers and not on anything else.
But if I was going to follow your logic, I could say that TCs were the "minor founding father" which is why GCs got the president and TCs the vice-president. So the 82% majority and the 18% minority was never equated under any kind of agreements.

U.N. resolutions accepted without the presence of TCs mean nothing.

Did you also apply to be included in the security council?

You keep referring to the Kurds in Turkey when you realize that your arguement is weak and does not make sense. As I have told you before, the situation in Turkey with the Kurds is COMPLETELY difeerent than what you are desperately trying to refer to in Cyprus. I would gladly discuss this withyou, ofcourse within the context of the Greeks` illegal treatment of true Republic of Macedonia, and the inhumane treatment of the TRUE Macedonians, Turks and Albanians in Greece, whenever you like. However, this forum is established for discussing the Cyprus problem. So I suggest you either PM me about the matter or maintain your silence.

Sure, lets discuss it. Kurdish people existed in the area before the Turks and they have a geographical region which includes parts of Turkey were they are the legal majority. So of course is different, Kurds deserve their own country, while TCs are a minority like the Turkish minority in Bulgaria.
And tell me about the TRUE Macedonians. Who are they? They were Muslims or maybe they were Slavs? Tell me, really.

For the first part: No, in 63 and in the whole Cyprus conflict, GCs were the ones that started the political and forceful illegalities. However, they were shell-shocked against the stiff resistance of the Turks.

Wrong. GCs simply made perfectly legal proposals that TCs used them in order to create tension and conflict as per their partition plan.