Why should I reveal this type of information as it will not be difficult to work out exactly who I am by asking a few questions in the north. This in itself is an invasion of my privacy and not asked of anyone else on the forum or is it a criteria for joining Cyprus forum. This type of information should be surrendered voluntarily not forced. I only do not feel this to be very unfair but more importantly could put my and my famalies safety at risk as people who have read this forum could bear grudges as we do not know the mental state of posters which at times is questionable. You have all forgotten the Kifeas saga and the mysterious threatening PMs.
I will tell you that my parents very rarely discussed GCs while we were growing up, they always said they are humans as well and no different from us. I started to develop my impression of Cyprus when I arrived on the island and read news from both sides and studied what went on back then, also listening to people who actually lived the horror of those times. This forum has also been an eye opener and confirmed that what I have learned is correct that there is no will, vision or desire on either side to unite and that like it or not the current division is going to be around for many more years to come.
The case of the 5 year old GC missing boy translated
by BirKibrisli » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:16 pm
pitsilos wrote:bir don't let anyone tell you differently, you can take the boy out of cyprus but you can never take cyprus out of the boy...
Too right,mate...
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BirKibrisli - Main Contributor
- Posts: 6162
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- Location: Australia
by Pyrpolizer » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:21 pm
In case you are willing to cooperate nobody is going to force you reveal any private information than what you consider necessary.
You are creating ghosts to frighten yourself. You mix up the heat of discussions with intensions to harm you physically.This is paranoid, I can't believe you even think like that.(Btw Zan and Shah threatened me I had a few minutes to live after you left. You can't imagine how much a laughed)
You are right none of the forum rules says anything about it. However it's not about the rules. It is for ABOUT HALF the people participating in this sub-forum. None of your views would count with all these suspicions around. If you want to continue like that, fine.
I also agree it is unfair for you be questioned like that. On the other hand you are the one who caused all this. It did not come out of no-where!
Anyway I have given my sincere advice as what you should do.I am too bored talking about your personal case for so many days, and this is my last word on it. Unless you sincerely try to clear up the situation against you, it will surface every now and then, and you will not feel ok. This is my final word on it, do as you like.
You are creating ghosts to frighten yourself. You mix up the heat of discussions with intensions to harm you physically.This is paranoid, I can't believe you even think like that.(Btw Zan and Shah threatened me I had a few minutes to live after you left. You can't imagine how much a laughed)
You are right none of the forum rules says anything about it. However it's not about the rules. It is for ABOUT HALF the people participating in this sub-forum. None of your views would count with all these suspicions around. If you want to continue like that, fine.
I also agree it is unfair for you be questioned like that. On the other hand you are the one who caused all this. It did not come out of no-where!
Anyway I have given my sincere advice as what you should do.I am too bored talking about your personal case for so many days, and this is my last word on it. Unless you sincerely try to clear up the situation against you, it will surface every now and then, and you will not feel ok. This is my final word on it, do as you like.
Last edited by Pyrpolizer on Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pyrpolizer - Leading Contributor
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- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 pm
by BirKibrisli » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:21 pm
Viewpoint wrote:Why should I reveal this type of information as it will not be difficult to work out exactly who I am by asking a few questions in the north. This in itself is an invasion of my privacy and not asked of anyone else on the forum or is it a criteria for joining Cyprus forum. This type of information should be surrendered voluntarily not forced. I only do not feel this to be very unfair but more importantly could put my and my famalies safety at risk as people who have read this forum could bear grudges as we do not know the mental state of posters which at times is questionable. You have all forgotten the Kifeas saga and the mysterious threatening PMs.
I will tell you that my parents very rarely discussed GCs while we were growing up, they always said they are humans as well and no different from us. I started to develop my impression of Cyprus when I arrived on the island and read news from both sides and studied what went on back then, also listening to people who actually lived the horror of those times. This forum has also been an eye opener and confirmed that what I have learned is correct that there is no will, vision or desire on either side to unite and that like it or not the current division is going to be around for many more years to come.
I did say it is entirely up to you what you reveal about yourself.
But I hope you can see that if you are very secretive,and give nothing away,and post more than 4000 times in a way that can be described as "propaganda for the TRNC",people will naturally wonder where the hell are you coming from...
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BirKibrisli - Main Contributor
- Posts: 6162
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
- Location: Australia
by MR-from-NG » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:37 pm
Hello my friend BK,
I'd like to publicly thank you for the time you spared to meet and take us on a wonderful tour of Sydney. You told me some horror stories that your father and you as a young man suffered in the days of EOKA and TMT. I truly sympathise with you and understand you a lot more then I did before meeting you.
Your ultimate goal on the Cyprus issue is no different than mine. Your strategy however is different which you so eloquently took the time to explain to me over dinner.
What I find difficult to accept is the equal blame you put on the 2 communities in finding a solution when clearly it is our GC compatriots who fail miserably in putting any effort into finding this solution.
Please read the below and tell me I'm wrong.
Best regards to you and your family, especially your dear mother.
Outrage as career diplomat dumped
By Elias Hazou
Press attach? accuses president of ‘vindictive’ behaviour
A CAREER diplomat is accusing President Tassos Papadopoulos personally of terminating his services for no reason other than sheer vindictiveness.
Soteris Giorgallis, formerly press attach? at the Cyprus’ High Commission in London, claims he has been sacked for having attended a pro-Annan book presentation at the London School of Economics.
“This is not about me,” the former diplomat told the Sunday Mail yesterday. “It has broader ramifications. It is about tolerance of the other opinion, of dialogue,” he said
The author of the book, The referendum of 24 April 2004 and the solution to the Cyprus problem, is Takis Hadjidemetriou, a political figure known for his support of the UN blueprint.
The event took place on May 12, 2006, when Hadjidemetriou read excerpts from his book and elaborated on some of his views, after which he took questions from the audience.
On June 30, Giorgallis got a phone call from his boss, High Commissioner Petros Eftychiou, asking him whether he had attended the presentation and what went on.
During the conversation, it emerged that Eftychiou had received a stern letter from President Papadopoulos, inquiring about the event.
The President believed that during the presentation, Hadjidemetriou had “made insulting remarks against me.” He wanted to know whether the press attach? was there and, if so, why a memo had not been prepared.
“If this is the case, I would like to know why the memo was withheld from me,” the President’s letter read.
Giorgallis duly prepared the memo, which was submitted first to Foreign Minister George Lillikas, and then to the President.
On July 20, Giorgallis contacted Foreign Minister Lillikas, a friend of many years, to seek clarification. Lillikas confided that his attendance of the book presentation was “only one of the reasons” for his dismissal. He said certain people close to the President had said Giorgallis was not doing his job properly and was “uncooperative.”
On September 8, Giorgallis received a communiqu? from the Foreign Ministry informing him that his contract, due to expire at the end of January 2007, would not be renewed.
The news came as a shock to Giorgallis, who had served as press attach? for more than 20 years, on the understanding that he would retire at that post at the age of 65.
Giorgallis immediately called the High Commissioner, who told him he “regretted” this state of affairs But he urged Giorgallis not to pursue the matter by getting others to talk to the President because, as he put it, “he [the President] goes berserk.”
On September 9, Giorgallis called Sotos Zakheos, then permanent secretary of the Foreign Ministry. Zakheos said that he had flatly refused to sign the communiqu? informing Giorgallis of his termination as this procedure was “irregular and illegal.”
Giorgallis has never been formally notified of the reasons for his sacking, as he should have been.
“I did not want to have blood on my hands,” Zakheos told Giorgallis.
Because of Zakheos’ refusal to participate, the communiqu? was given to another Foreign Ministry officer to sign.
Giorgallis next contacted George Iacovou, who had just been appointed High Commissioner to London, replacing Eftychiou.
After hearing the events of the last months, Iacovou seemed to be sympathetic to Giorgallis’ cause.
“In the past, we have caught thieves and so many other parasites [in the diplomatic corps], and we never fired them. How can they possibly fire you, when everyone knows what a good job you’re doing?”
According to Giorgallis, when he explained his plight to House Speaker Demetris Christofias, the latter shrugged and said: “He [the President] is unbelievably stubborn.”
“This story brings to my mind fascist regimes and behaviors,” Christofias added.
Late last year, Lillikas met privately with the President where, among other things, they discussed Giorgallis’ case.
Lillikas tried to intercede on Giorgallis’ behalf, explaining to Papadopoulos that, as part of protocol, embassy officers do not speak at book presentations unless they are spoken to.
But Papadopoulos was unmoved, whereupon he remarked:
“Fine, he [Giorgallis] did not respond to Hadjidemetriou. But couldn’t he have defended me in front of the Turkish Cypriots who were there asking questions?”
In the months that followed, Giorgallis continued contacting senior government officials, but as time passed he began getting the cold shoulder treatment.
Unbeknown to Giorgallis, a friend tried to intercede in the matter by calling government spokesman Christodoulos Pashardis.
Pashardis informed the concerned friend that “you don’t seem to understand. Our hands our tied,” evidently hinting that the President had made up his mind.
Finally, on January 31 this year - the day his contract expired - Giorgalli addressed a letter to the President, asking for a private audience.
In the letter, Giorgallis expressed to the President his “unimaginable bitterness” that to that day he had still not comprehended why he was being made redundant.
“If there are any reasons that led you to this decision, then at the very least these should have been made known to me so that I might be able to answer the specific allegations. That would only be fair, I believe,” wrote Giorgallis.
Referring to the contentious LSE book presentation, he said, “the event was not some clandestine meeting with the purpose of overthrowing the Papadopoulos administration. It was an open function, and Hadjidemetriou’s views are well known in Cyprus anyway.”
According to Giorgallis, no one has yet been named to replace him as press attach? at the High Commission.
And he suspects that the public affairs division might be shut down, which would be “a grave mistake.”
“Frankly, this sort of behavior is unheard of. It reminds me of the Middle Ages,” he said.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2007
I'd like to publicly thank you for the time you spared to meet and take us on a wonderful tour of Sydney. You told me some horror stories that your father and you as a young man suffered in the days of EOKA and TMT. I truly sympathise with you and understand you a lot more then I did before meeting you.
Your ultimate goal on the Cyprus issue is no different than mine. Your strategy however is different which you so eloquently took the time to explain to me over dinner.
What I find difficult to accept is the equal blame you put on the 2 communities in finding a solution when clearly it is our GC compatriots who fail miserably in putting any effort into finding this solution.
Please read the below and tell me I'm wrong.
Best regards to you and your family, especially your dear mother.
Outrage as career diplomat dumped
By Elias Hazou
Press attach? accuses president of ‘vindictive’ behaviour
A CAREER diplomat is accusing President Tassos Papadopoulos personally of terminating his services for no reason other than sheer vindictiveness.
Soteris Giorgallis, formerly press attach? at the Cyprus’ High Commission in London, claims he has been sacked for having attended a pro-Annan book presentation at the London School of Economics.
“This is not about me,” the former diplomat told the Sunday Mail yesterday. “It has broader ramifications. It is about tolerance of the other opinion, of dialogue,” he said
The author of the book, The referendum of 24 April 2004 and the solution to the Cyprus problem, is Takis Hadjidemetriou, a political figure known for his support of the UN blueprint.
The event took place on May 12, 2006, when Hadjidemetriou read excerpts from his book and elaborated on some of his views, after which he took questions from the audience.
On June 30, Giorgallis got a phone call from his boss, High Commissioner Petros Eftychiou, asking him whether he had attended the presentation and what went on.
During the conversation, it emerged that Eftychiou had received a stern letter from President Papadopoulos, inquiring about the event.
The President believed that during the presentation, Hadjidemetriou had “made insulting remarks against me.” He wanted to know whether the press attach? was there and, if so, why a memo had not been prepared.
“If this is the case, I would like to know why the memo was withheld from me,” the President’s letter read.
Giorgallis duly prepared the memo, which was submitted first to Foreign Minister George Lillikas, and then to the President.
On July 20, Giorgallis contacted Foreign Minister Lillikas, a friend of many years, to seek clarification. Lillikas confided that his attendance of the book presentation was “only one of the reasons” for his dismissal. He said certain people close to the President had said Giorgallis was not doing his job properly and was “uncooperative.”
On September 8, Giorgallis received a communiqu? from the Foreign Ministry informing him that his contract, due to expire at the end of January 2007, would not be renewed.
The news came as a shock to Giorgallis, who had served as press attach? for more than 20 years, on the understanding that he would retire at that post at the age of 65.
Giorgallis immediately called the High Commissioner, who told him he “regretted” this state of affairs But he urged Giorgallis not to pursue the matter by getting others to talk to the President because, as he put it, “he [the President] goes berserk.”
On September 9, Giorgallis called Sotos Zakheos, then permanent secretary of the Foreign Ministry. Zakheos said that he had flatly refused to sign the communiqu? informing Giorgallis of his termination as this procedure was “irregular and illegal.”
Giorgallis has never been formally notified of the reasons for his sacking, as he should have been.
“I did not want to have blood on my hands,” Zakheos told Giorgallis.
Because of Zakheos’ refusal to participate, the communiqu? was given to another Foreign Ministry officer to sign.
Giorgallis next contacted George Iacovou, who had just been appointed High Commissioner to London, replacing Eftychiou.
After hearing the events of the last months, Iacovou seemed to be sympathetic to Giorgallis’ cause.
“In the past, we have caught thieves and so many other parasites [in the diplomatic corps], and we never fired them. How can they possibly fire you, when everyone knows what a good job you’re doing?”
According to Giorgallis, when he explained his plight to House Speaker Demetris Christofias, the latter shrugged and said: “He [the President] is unbelievably stubborn.”
“This story brings to my mind fascist regimes and behaviors,” Christofias added.
Late last year, Lillikas met privately with the President where, among other things, they discussed Giorgallis’ case.
Lillikas tried to intercede on Giorgallis’ behalf, explaining to Papadopoulos that, as part of protocol, embassy officers do not speak at book presentations unless they are spoken to.
But Papadopoulos was unmoved, whereupon he remarked:
“Fine, he [Giorgallis] did not respond to Hadjidemetriou. But couldn’t he have defended me in front of the Turkish Cypriots who were there asking questions?”
In the months that followed, Giorgallis continued contacting senior government officials, but as time passed he began getting the cold shoulder treatment.
Unbeknown to Giorgallis, a friend tried to intercede in the matter by calling government spokesman Christodoulos Pashardis.
Pashardis informed the concerned friend that “you don’t seem to understand. Our hands our tied,” evidently hinting that the President had made up his mind.
Finally, on January 31 this year - the day his contract expired - Giorgalli addressed a letter to the President, asking for a private audience.
In the letter, Giorgallis expressed to the President his “unimaginable bitterness” that to that day he had still not comprehended why he was being made redundant.
“If there are any reasons that led you to this decision, then at the very least these should have been made known to me so that I might be able to answer the specific allegations. That would only be fair, I believe,” wrote Giorgallis.
Referring to the contentious LSE book presentation, he said, “the event was not some clandestine meeting with the purpose of overthrowing the Papadopoulos administration. It was an open function, and Hadjidemetriou’s views are well known in Cyprus anyway.”
According to Giorgallis, no one has yet been named to replace him as press attach? at the High Commission.
And he suspects that the public affairs division might be shut down, which would be “a grave mistake.”
“Frankly, this sort of behavior is unheard of. It reminds me of the Middle Ages,” he said.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2007
- MR-from-NG
- Main Contributor
- Posts: 3440
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:58 pm
by BirKibrisli » Sun Mar 18, 2007 4:51 pm
Merhabalar,dear MR...
It was a pleasure to meet you in Sydney,and I thank you for your generosity.I am only sorry we couldn't meet up again,as there was so much more I wanted to show you of Sydney.
We have all suffered in one way or another from this human tragedy called Cypro,perhaps some of us more than others on an individual level.
I believe it has diminished us as Cypriots and as human beings,and it keeps diminishing us the longer we go on without a just and lasting solution.
I believe there is no point in looking for blame in this sad conflict,but if we must apportion blame at least we should do it equally...Playing the blame and guilt game gets us nowhere.What we need is more empathy and sympathy for each other,as I said elsewhere,in order to build the necessary trust,understanding and respect to help us reach a solution.
It is easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight,and regret this and that,or blame this or other person,but more difficult to put ourselves in others' shoes without the benefit of hindsight. This is what I try to do,and I hope I succeed at least most of the time.
The story of Mr Giorgallis is indeed sad and regretable.
I have never been too fond of Papadopoulos' policies or his approach to solving the Cypro. He does give the impression that he is infelxible,and he would rather have the status quo,if he is not going to get his way on the whole.History is against him as well.I believe that he is far too tainted by his links to EOKA and the Akritas plan to be trusted by the TCs.He should gracefully retire at the next election and allow for generational change.But power is very seductive,and I don't believe he would retire voluntarily. We cannot afford another 5 years of inaction,so I am very pessimistic of our chances of finding a solution in the near future.
To be fair Talat and Co have also been disappointing,and rather hypocritical.They were elected on a platform of peace and reunification,but there seems little difference between them and the old Denktash rejime.But Talat has one excuse: he is not the one calling the shots,and this reality seems to have paralysed him as well.I am also disappointed that Talat is fanning the flames when it comes to the TCs feelings of being rejected by the GC NO at the referandum.Both sides are playing politics at the expense of human rights and democratic principles,unable to forgive the wrongs of the past.
Let us all try,at the individual and grassroots level, to tell our politicians that we are not impressed with their lassez faire attitude,and demand more constructive moves from both sides towards opening meanigful negotiations...
My regards to your lovely wife,and best wishes to you,dear MR.
We shall meet again,I am sure.Hopefully in a united Cyprus.
It would be nice to have a drink with you and miltiades,and toast to peace and brotherhood...Cheers
It was a pleasure to meet you in Sydney,and I thank you for your generosity.I am only sorry we couldn't meet up again,as there was so much more I wanted to show you of Sydney.
We have all suffered in one way or another from this human tragedy called Cypro,perhaps some of us more than others on an individual level.
I believe it has diminished us as Cypriots and as human beings,and it keeps diminishing us the longer we go on without a just and lasting solution.
I believe there is no point in looking for blame in this sad conflict,but if we must apportion blame at least we should do it equally...Playing the blame and guilt game gets us nowhere.What we need is more empathy and sympathy for each other,as I said elsewhere,in order to build the necessary trust,understanding and respect to help us reach a solution.
It is easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight,and regret this and that,or blame this or other person,but more difficult to put ourselves in others' shoes without the benefit of hindsight. This is what I try to do,and I hope I succeed at least most of the time.
The story of Mr Giorgallis is indeed sad and regretable.
I have never been too fond of Papadopoulos' policies or his approach to solving the Cypro. He does give the impression that he is infelxible,and he would rather have the status quo,if he is not going to get his way on the whole.History is against him as well.I believe that he is far too tainted by his links to EOKA and the Akritas plan to be trusted by the TCs.He should gracefully retire at the next election and allow for generational change.But power is very seductive,and I don't believe he would retire voluntarily. We cannot afford another 5 years of inaction,so I am very pessimistic of our chances of finding a solution in the near future.
To be fair Talat and Co have also been disappointing,and rather hypocritical.They were elected on a platform of peace and reunification,but there seems little difference between them and the old Denktash rejime.But Talat has one excuse: he is not the one calling the shots,and this reality seems to have paralysed him as well.I am also disappointed that Talat is fanning the flames when it comes to the TCs feelings of being rejected by the GC NO at the referandum.Both sides are playing politics at the expense of human rights and democratic principles,unable to forgive the wrongs of the past.
Let us all try,at the individual and grassroots level, to tell our politicians that we are not impressed with their lassez faire attitude,and demand more constructive moves from both sides towards opening meanigful negotiations...
My regards to your lovely wife,and best wishes to you,dear MR.
We shall meet again,I am sure.Hopefully in a united Cyprus.
It would be nice to have a drink with you and miltiades,and toast to peace and brotherhood...Cheers
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BirKibrisli - Main Contributor
- Posts: 6162
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
- Location: Australia
by Viewpoint » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:39 pm
Birkibrisli wrote:Viewpoint wrote:Why should I reveal this type of information as it will not be difficult to work out exactly who I am by asking a few questions in the north. This in itself is an invasion of my privacy and not asked of anyone else on the forum or is it a criteria for joining Cyprus forum. This type of information should be surrendered voluntarily not forced. I only do not feel this to be very unfair but more importantly could put my and my famalies safety at risk as people who have read this forum could bear grudges as we do not know the mental state of posters which at times is questionable. You have all forgotten the Kifeas saga and the mysterious threatening PMs.
I will tell you that my parents very rarely discussed GCs while we were growing up, they always said they are humans as well and no different from us. I started to develop my impression of Cyprus when I arrived on the island and read news from both sides and studied what went on back then, also listening to people who actually lived the horror of those times. This forum has also been an eye opener and confirmed that what I have learned is correct that there is no will, vision or desire on either side to unite and that like it or not the current division is going to be around for many more years to come.
I did say it is entirely up to you what you reveal about yourself.
But I hope you can see that if you are very secretive,and give nothing away,and post more than 4000 times in a way that can be described as "propaganda for the TRNC",people will naturally wonder where the hell are you coming from...
Bir I do not have to prove anything to anyone just like you or anyone else on this forum, so all you and people like you can do is take my posts on face value looking at the content more than the poster isnt that more important? It appears people are uncomfortable with what I am saying and the consistency therefore try to attack me rather than my arguements or opinions and you to support this pack of posters, well I hope you are proud of your own contribution to this issue,I could tell you a pack of lies but because I would rather tell the truth and reveal things about myself only when I am ready and not before then I am being singled out and persecuted, well done.
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Viewpoint - Leading Contributor
- Posts: 25214
- Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:48 pm
- Location: Nicosia/Lefkosa
by BirKibrisli » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:36 am
VP wrote:Bir I do not have to prove anything to anyone just like you or anyone else on this forum, so all you and people like you can do is take my posts on face value looking at the content more than the poster isnt that more important? It appears people are uncomfortable with what I am saying and the consistency therefore try to attack me rather than my arguements or opinions and you to support this pack of posters, well I hope you are proud of your own contribution to this issue,I could tell you a pack of lies but because I would rather tell the truth and reveal things about myself only when I am ready and not before then I am being singled out and persecuted, well done.
I don't accept the accusation that I am singling you out or persecuting you,VP. It is not in my nature to do those things.You have singled yourself out by posting so many posts,in a way that could only be describes as TRNC propaganda.We all have our stock arguments,and a consistency in approach,but we also have many little inconsistencies and idiosyncracies which makes us unique individuals. You seem to lack those human touches.But perhaps that's how you relate to people and emotional issues.I am prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt...
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BirKibrisli - Main Contributor
- Posts: 6162
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
- Location: Australia
by humanist » Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:00 am
bir don't let anyone tell you differently, you can take the boy out of cyprus but you can never take cyprus out of the boy...
I am not sure if that is a good thing or a curse, personally I feel it is a curse, I just want to go to bed wake up and know that there is no more fucking Cyprus thing[/quote]
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humanist - Main Contributor
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