Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

Look if it will make you all happy i will buy a very big cake and you can all share it.

[Piratis]

GCs are 82, TCs are 18. If the 18 gets 50% of the cake this means that each one of those 18 will eat 2.8% of the cake, but each one of the other 82 will only eat 0.6% of the cake.

These 18 wants to be separate based on racist discrimination. They claim various excuses for this, but in the end the real reason is one: To eat 4.5 times more cake than the rest.

[brother]

piratis for you my dear alter ego i will buy you your very own cake so you can have 100% of it all and only share if you choose.

[insan]

Actually the case is that, %18 wants to secure their %18 share by being politically equal but some groups of GCs want to take control of the whole Island and give %18 whatever share best suits them. %3, %5 or %12? Who knows. The matter of the fact, what scare %18 and make them stick on "political equality" and guarantorship of Turkey is this justified concerns. Only the practice of the preaches can prove TCs the otherwise, in a long time period of course. Words without practice are not enough to convince TCs that they would be secure without Turkey's guarantorship and political equality.

I can't understand the stance of GC ruling elite that they still insist on no guarantorship of foreign countries and majority rule. If internal social dynamics of TC community have had a strong confidence about Hellenic Rulin Elite, they would revolt against Turkey to make her to leave Cyprus together with mainland settlers. TCs as a community proved its communal power when organized as a single bold, decisive body. But nevertheless they should have given the same reaction to the Turkish Ruling Elite when 3rd Vienna Agreement have been violated by oppressing GCs to flee to South and importing thousands of settlers. Now it seems too late because if TCs demand such a thing at the moment it most probably would cause a serious internal strife among TCs and settlers.


Thus Turkey should acknowledge that the 3rd Vienna Agreement has been violated by previous Turkish governments together with Denktash regime. Furthermore Hellenic Ruling elite should pressurize Turkey to repatriate at least half of the settlers particularly which brought to North in 90s and afterwards. The second issue that Hellenic ruling elite should pressurize Turkey to acknowledge is that the injusticeness of the relevant provisions of Annan Plan concerning the political rights of GCs who will return to reside in Turkish constituent state.

I'm sure there are some other provisions of Annan Plan which should be ammended and improved. Even perhaps the provisions regarding "political equality" and guarantorship must be ammended and improved in order to make them less exploitable but insofar as I'm concerned Hellenic Ruling Elite insist on no guarantorship, no political equality of two communities but majority rule, immediate withdrawal of all Turkish troops and political equality for all citizens of so-called bi-communal, bi-zonal Federal Republic of Cyprus. A kind of self-delusion in illusion of "Hellene's and Eoropeans are angels but Turks are the evils. TCs should trust Hellene's and Europeans but kick Turkey out of Cyprus and even EU"

[turkcyp]

Actually turkcyp the GCs have the cake, it's just that Turkey won't let them have any

Interesting analogy. Let's keep on rolling with this...

GCs have the whole cake (RoC) which they were supposed to share with us (according to 1960 constitution) but refused to do so from 1963-1974.

So Turkey came along and divided the cake into two pieces (granted to the advantage of TCs) so that GCs would not keep on intruding on our share of the cake.

We may had a portion of the cake more than we should probably in 1974, but after 1974 you have used every opportunity to make our cake as dull as it can be, giving us a plain old tasteless chunk of cake, and keeping all the nice and rich German choclate side to yourself. ( I guess you can infer from this I like choclate )

I guess if I were GCs I would do the same(sincerely saying this). But one might wonder and ask if in 1974 Turkey cut the cake more fairly with appropriate proportions (18%-82% as you guys suggest), would you accept the division then. I highly doubt it, because you even now still believe that you should have the whole cake and not share it with us.

This is how it seems from our side of the story.

[brother]

Turkcyp, that was probably the best explanation i have heard in a long time.

[metecyp]

Actually the case is that, %18 wants to secure their %18 share by being politically equal but some groups of GCs want to take control of the whole Island and give %18 whatever share best suits them. %3, %5 or %12? Who knows. The matter of the fact, what scare %18 and make them stick on "political equality" and guarantorship of Turkey is this justified concerns. Only the practice of the preaches can prove TCs the otherwise, in a long time period of course. Words without practice are not enough to convince TCs that they would be secure without Turkey's guarantorship and political equality.

insan, I completely agree with what you said. Unfortunately, our GC friends do not even acknowledge that our concerns are justified. They don't believe us that we don't want a seperate state and we just want to make sure that our rights will be protected in a federal Cyprus.

[Piratis]

Actually the case is that, %18 wants to secure their %18 share by being politically equal

If they want to secure the 18%, then they would agree to have the 18%. E.g. the 18% of government positions, the 18% from the budget money, the 18% of land etc.

Soon you are going to tell me that the TCs want 30% of land so they will secure the 18%!! Come on!! It is very obvious that what you want is a lot more than the 18%, and that if you have the 50% of power you will use this power to get the 50% of almost everything.

But one might wonder and ask if in 1974 Turkey cut the cake more fairly with appropriate proportions (18%-82% as you guys suggest), would you accept the division then.

Any way that you "cut" it is illegal because it involves the violation of the human rights of some people and international law.

However, if the "cut" was 18%-82% I would personally accept it.

It is like if you brake in my home and you steal something that worths 100 pounds and you leave 10 pounds on the table for me, such thing will not be accepted because what you stole worths a lot more than the money of your "compensation". However if you leave 100 pounds on the table for me, then this can be acceptable, even if your action is still illegal.

As I said in another thread I would agree for an 18%-82% "cut" not because this is something ideal, but because it is something better than the other "realistic alternatives".
This way the 82 gets the 82, and the 18 gets their 18 without the fear that they can get less (and without the option of getting more).
I believe that if Turkish Cypriots agree with this it will be more honest than trying to screw us with some pseudo unity that will give them a lot more than the 18% they deserve. (and as a consequence give to us a lot less than we deserve)

[turkcyp]

Oh Piratis, dear Piratis,

Why do you just quote one portion of my post? In my post I just explained how the whole Cyprus problem is seen from our perspective. For us everything starts with first you stealing from us in 1963. Why don’t you comment on that portion of the post as well but only comment what we have taken from you guys but never mentioned anything about your theft starting after 1963 and still counting.

I have already acknowledged that the cake was divided unfairly. If only you can acknowledge what has caused the division of the cake. It seems to me that this is your common mistake. You use every opportunity to tell us what we have done wrong, and always skip over the things you have done wrong.

In my opinion, I guess the difference is that majoroty of TCs has realized where they have done wrong, but majority of GCs did not. We can accept our mistakes but you can't.

I guess taking the constitutionally protected human rights of TCs were not that important for you after 1963, but human rights only become very important when you guys start loosing something.

Ah, ah. We have a long way to go on this island before we can find a way to peaceful co-existence on this island.

Take care anyway

[boulio]

why do you keep bringing up 1963, didn't the TURKISH CYPRIOT VP not except makarios thirteen points?hell even dektash excepted them in 1968

http://www.trncpresidency.org/history/i ... _talks.htm


turkcyp i mentioned autonomy in a previous post,do you have any feedback or is it unacceptable.