Cyprus-Forum.com

[rebetis]

It was Ataturk himself who insisted to call them a Muslim minority and not Turkish back in 1923. The reason why Greece refused to call them Turkish was because of Turkey's expasionist plans in the past. Some say Cyprus is not a good example, but Alexandretta is.
Anyway, this does not justifie Greece's attitude today but I read a HWR report and it's much better now but still some points have to improve. We have to understand that we can not see the one without the other, I mean the way we treat our minorities now and in the past are connected so you'll have to critisize both. Every action of Greece or Turkey had is reason and his consequenses, the one led to the other. In that case Turkey is more to blame than Greece.
For me no problem at all, they are Turkish if they feel so.

[metecyp]

Every action of Greece or Turkey had is reason and his consequenses, the one led to the other. In that case Turkey is more to blame than Greece.

Why do we always end up getting into who is more to blame? Does it matter if Turkey is more guilty? If something is wrong, it's wrong and period. People like to call themselves Turkish but the government says "No, you're Muslim minority" and this is wrong. Turkey's being more guilty does not change the fact that this is wrong. Why is it so hard to admit that the Greek government is doing something wrong? I have no problem admitting that Turkey has a long way to go in regard to its treatment of Kurdish citizens.

[brother]

Can we get this straight that there is no such thing as more to blame, they are both as bad as one another and should do a lot of growing up.

[rebetis]

"Why is it so hard to admit that the Greek government is doing something wrong?"

Please read my post again, I didn't ignore that.

Anyway, maybe you're right, maybe it was not the right way to express it.
Is it alright if we use this priciple (nobody is to blame more tha the other) in the Cyprus issue, because the same thing happens over there, both did mistakes but we still keep on blaiming eachother for commiting the greatest crimes, etc...

[metecyp]

Is it alright if we use this priciple (nobody is to blame more tha the other) in the Cyprus issue, because the same thing happens over there, both did mistakes but we still keep on blaiming eachother for commiting the greatest crimes, etc...

Of course, we can use the same principle in Cyprus or anywhere else. If something is wrong, it's wrong and we shouldn't try to come up with excuses for something that's wrong and we shouldn't try to measure who is more to blame.

[turkcyp]

Everything is out of proportions in this topic as well.

Question is this. In no agreement does RoT accepted that Kurds are minority in their borders. Does this mean that Turkey should keep on ignoring their existence. I think that issue has been settled so many times in ECHR. Kurdish issue is one issue that Turkey is sued in ECHR most.

Now are you saying that Greece is doing the same thing. Just because the agreement they have signed with Turkey does say that this people are muslim, but it does not say that they are not Turkish (and by the way, it does not say that they are not Turkish either, a muslim can be Greek, Turkish, German, Arab, etc. etc), does not give her right to deny the very existence of these Turks in her borders.

If somebody calls themselves Turks. Kurds, Greek then let them be that. No country should decide how a citizen of hers should decide about their ethnicity.

And to my knowledeg at no point in time Turkey had demanded from Greece anything other than these people's right to exist (like right to educate themselves in Turkish, right to choose their own religios leaders, etc. etc.). There is no land demand regarding these Turks in Greece neither these Turks wants to secede from Greece as well.

If you are telling me that Greeks are afradi that if they are called Turks one day, tehy may want these rights. Then you are no different than Turkey's political situation against Kurds. For that matter, Turkey does not even like the idea of federation in Iraq becuasue they think one day, they will be seperate Kurdish independent state and claim land from Turkey. These scares (both Turkeys and Greeces) may all be valid to certain extent, but this still does not give them right to take the basic human righst of these ethnicties in their own country.

p.s. To some I have asked, "What makes you Greek?" meaning nobody and no test can tell anybody about their ethnicity. They are who what they think they are. Furthermore, nobody can tell that you were Greek but with Ottoman Empire you were converted to Islam, so you are actually muslim Greek. It just does not make sense for any govermetn to claim that one person belong to this etnicity.

Coming specifically about Turks living in Greece or Cyprus. If these people have Turkish names, all speak Turkish, all identify themselves as Turks than they are Turks and you should respect that. Now you may tell me that they all have muslim names. Well you all have christian names as well, but this does not stop you being Greek as well. As if somebody is either muslim or Turk and can not be both.

When goverments (Greece, Turkey, RoC, USA, UK name it whatever) stop using the people as political pawns in their big chess games, and start servicing all of their constituents fairly, then nationalism will end and this world will be a better place to live in.

Take care everybody

[rebetis]

Let's be clear that in no way we can justifie the way the Turkish minority was treated, indeed, they have every right to call themselves Turks if they feel so. But this was not my point. I tried to explain how we got in this situation in the first place. The reason why I said Turkey is more to blaim is because the turkish minority is still existing and the Greek minority does not exist anymore (2000 left over from the 300.000).

"Of course, we can use the same principle in Cyprus or anywhere else. If something is wrong, it's wrong and we shouldn't try to come up with excuses for something that's wrong and we shouldn't try to measure who is more to blame."

So we agree that Turkish invasion and occupation is illegal and wrong.

[metecyp]

So we agree that Turkish invasion and occupation is illegal and wrong.

The fact that so many TCs and GCs died in in 1960s and 1970s, particularly in 1974, the fact that many GCs and TCs became refugees, the fact that GC refugees are denied to enjoy their properties in the north, the fact that the RoC is not bicommunal anymore...etc, all these are illegal and wrong.

[magikthrill]

here's a suggestion...

why doesn't the hellenic republic offer the muslim minority in thrace equal power sharing in the government.

that would be fair, no?

[metecyp]

why doesn't the hellenic republic offer the muslim minority in thrace equal power sharing in the government.

that would be fair, no?

What you suggestted has nothing to do with what we were discussing about.