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Greek court bans Muslim association for calling itself "

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby metecyp » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:09 pm

It is clear that GC suffered 100 times more by the Turks, and that the 10 years that TCs suffered is nothing compared to the suffering that Turks caused to us.

And what's your point exactly? Let's punish TCs? How many times I'm supposed to say that talking about before 1960 is a complete waste of time, especially when we talk about who sufferred more...
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Postby brother » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:10 pm

You cannot belittle the tc suffering based on your own perceptions that the gc suffered longer.

Or was the idea at the time to kill tc just an act of revenge or payback piratis.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:12 pm

Turkish Cypriots = Greek Cypriots forced into Islam.


Well, I didn't say just Greek Cypriots. They might have been Latins, or other Cypriots, but the truth is that most initial TCs became TCs in this way.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:17 pm

And what's your point exactly? Let's punish TCs?


No, but your point is "Lets punish GCs", isn't it?

Don't you use the past as an excuse for the violation of our human rights and for asking for permanent derogations in the even event of a solution.

I have no problem to leave the past behind, but you bring the past up in a very selective way, like the whole history is 63-68 and what happened before or after doesn't matter.

If you bring up the part of history that suits you, I will bring up the whole history. Any problem with that?
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Postby brother » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:25 pm

Yes i have a problem with the fact that you have been violating our human rights for 40 years and still are, so in effect you attack and kill us then you keep our properties and those that choose to stay you deprive and take away there most fundemental human right and that is to vote.

You are the one with a very selective memory who just cannot accept that you at the moment are the fore father of violations of human rights.
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Postby Piratis » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:38 pm

so in effect you attack and kill us


Over the history you killed 100 times more GCs.

you keep our properties


You are 18% and you stole 36% of the land from us by force. You want even more? You greediness have no limits.

you deprive and take away there most fundemental human right and that is to vote.

You are free to vote just like I am.

So brother, stop talking crap and face the truth.
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Postby brother » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:51 pm

Actually piratis the tc did not kill any greeks, get your facts right.


You tried to steal our right to live and turkey came and protected us from you the killers of tc.

Absolute RUBBISH you now have proven that you know NOTHING, any tc who lives in the south even if they did not leave after 1974 have no rights, not even to vote, you do not believe me then go and ask your terrorist leader tassos and you will find out the truth.

YOU NOT ONLY SPEAK ABSOLUTE RUBBISH BUT YOU ALSO TAR THE TC WITH THE SAME BRUSH AS MAINLAND TURKS AS YOUR ABOVE POST PROVES.

YOU ARE A PERSON WHO HAS A DEEP ROOTED HATE OF TURKS AND I WOULD NOT BE SUPRISED IF YOUR FAMILY WAS PART OF THE EOKA PEOPLE AS YOU OBVIOUSLEY ARE A SERIOUS TURK HATER AND BEING TC MAKES NO DIFFERENCE IN YOUR EYE.
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:53 pm

boulio wrote:turkcyp i never heard of that the cypriots welcomed the ottomans?do you have any links with that information?


Boulio, I guess Alex summed it up very well. Nobody wants to be ruled by others. But Ottomans were definetly lesser of teh two evils compared to Venetians.

You can for example read from this site the chapters about:
- The Lusignan and Venetian Eras: http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/6.htm
- and Ottman rule: http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/7.htm

“The former foreign elite was destroyed--its members killed, carried away as captives, or exiled. The Orthodox Christians, i.e., the Greek Cypriots who survived, had new foreign overlords. Some early decisions of these new rulers were welcome innovations. The feudal system was abolished, and the freed serfs were enabled to acquire land and work their own farms. Although the small landholdings of the peasants were heavily taxed, the ending of serfdom changed the lives of the island's ordinary people. Another action of far-reaching importance was the granting of land to Turkish soldiers and peasants who became the nucleus of the island's Turkish community.

Although their homeland had been dominated by foreigners for many centuries, it was only after the imposition of Ottoman rule that Orthodox Christians began to develop a really strong sense of cohesiveness. This change was prompted by the Ottoman practice of ruling the empire through millets, or religious communities. Rather than suppressing the empire's many religious communities, the Turks allowed them a degree of automony as long as they complied with the demands of the sultan. The vast size and the ethnic variety of the empire made such a policy imperative. The system of governing through millets reestablished the authority of the Church of Cyprus and made its head the Greek Cypriot leader, or ethnarch. It became the responsibility of the ethnarch to administer the territories where his flock lived and to collect taxes. The religious convictions and functions of the ethnarch were of no concern to the empire as long as its needs were met.

In 1575 the Turks granted permission for the return of the archbishop and the three bishops of the Church of Cyprus to their respective sees. They also abolished the feudal system for they saw it as an extraneous power structure, unnecessary and dangerous. The autocephalous Church of Cyprus could function in its place for the political and fiscal administration of the island's Christian inhabitants. Its structured hierarchy put even remote villages within easy reach of the central authority. Both parties benefited. Greek Cypriots gained a measure of autonomy, and the empire received revenues without the bother of administration.”

Again remember, WE are not saying that Ottoman Rule was a walk in the park, and that GCs did not suffer during those years. Any society who is ruled by other suffer one degree to another.

At times it was quite oppressive at times it granted autonomy, at some times during Ottoman rule island flourished at some other times it went into decline. It all depend on who was the particular ruler of Ottoman empire, and his view toward ethnic minorities in the empire.

And again, no society likes an outside rule, and Ottoman did not capture Cyprus to save GCs. It was simply serving Ottoman interest. But so as Brits, Venetians, etc. etc. That is what imperialism is all about after all. You capture new land to use their resources whatever they may be, be it strategic resources, or material resources. For Ottomans Cyprus was a key to control trade in eastern Mediterranean and ship building.

What we are saying that Ottoman Rule was much more preferred to Latin rule in Cyprus during the middle ages.

The source: http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:01 pm

Piratis wrote:They might have been welcomed because they were unknown. When GCs learned how the Ottomans really are they were not welcomed anymore. This is also the truth.

Anyways. I am glad it was just a misunderstanding, and you accept that the Ottomans came here to exploit us and that there was nothing good about this. It is clear that GC suffered 100 times more by the Turks, and that the 10 years that TCs suffered is nothing compared to the suffering that Turks caused to us.


Every country that invade another country during those years does not do because they like to save anybody. they simply like to use thier startegic materials, and exploit them. This is what imperialism is all about.

Every empire did this from Greeks, to Turks, to English, to Spanish. Every Empire did this. Are you telling me that Alexander the Great invaded the whole world because he wanted to bring prosperity to the world.

Again with the whole "who started first" fighting. Where are we going to do with this. OK Piratis you win. GC suffer more under Turkish rule than TC suffer under Greek rule. Happy? Is this why you guys are trying to take revenge now? In Northern Thrace of in Cyprus, or in Crete? Is it all about, you have made us this so it jsutifies what we aredoing to you.

Grow up please...

Piratis wrote:Well, I didn't say just Greek Cypriots. They might have been Latins, or other Cypriots, but the truth is that most initial TCs became TCs in this way.


And this is wring too. I am not saying that there were not local Christians who turned muslim during Ottoman years. But the nucleis of TC socity actually comes from the Ottoman soldiers who were given land in Cyprus, and some population transfer from Konya region to serve the Ottoman rule.
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Postby metecyp » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:49 pm

Actually piratis the tc did not kill any greeks, get your facts right.

Hey, brother, let's not get carried away now. Both TCs and GCs killed and got killed, both have missing people and both have refugees. This is important to realize.
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