Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

I guess the next thing you will argue is there is no Turks in Cyprus but simply muslim Cypriots.

My gosh, what an ignorance!!!

What ignorance indeed! So, you are saying that people that were in the past Greek Cypriots and converted to being muslim under Ottoman rule are now Turks?

[turkcyp]

What ignorance indeed! So, you are saying that people that were in the past Greek Cypriots and converted to being muslim under Ottoman rule are now Turks?

Dear Mikkie,

What makes you Greek? Can you tell me how can you identify if somebody is Greek or Turk.

Answer this for me please. Then we can continue discussing this issue of if there is any Turks in Cyprus or not.

And please do not tip toe around the question again for another three days, and later on come and write down, i was answering to a limited scenario not your question, like you did in the other topic.

It will be waste of my time, and it will be waste of your time,

Have a good weekend,

[Saint Jimmy]

Turkey is using the Muslim minorities in neighboring countries in order to expand herself.
You can not deny this because the example of Cyprus talks for itself.

Dude, if the example of Cyprus speaks for itself, does the example of Crete not? I'm not very familiar with that issue, but, in my understanding, there were Turks there, as well, only... they are not there any more! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My argument is that Turkey may be using Muslim minorities in neighboring countries in order to expand herself (I can't say that for sure, but for argument's sake, granted), but Cyprus is not a good example: Turkey didn't get to where she is in Cyprus by herself, or just by using the Muslim minority here - I can name a few Orthodox Christians who lent a helping hand.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Then may be Turkey should start calling The Greeks, Armenians in Turkey as Christian Turks.

Hmm, interestingly enough, the Orthodox Patriarch at Constantinople is making a point of referring to himself as a Turkish citizen, and then also as a leader of world-wide Christianity (as opposed to leader of the "Rum-millet"). That is why he is unpopular in segments of Greece, who tend to see him as "a Turk" ...

When Erdogan went to visit the muslim minority in Thrace last year, he made a point of telling them that "you are Greek citizens, and you should work to build a strong Greece". That gesture by Erdogan was very much appreciated by the Greek government, which in reality made a big gamble by allowing him to speak in Thrace (he could have made a fiery secessionist speech, but he didn't).

Anyway, my point is that it is important to maintain the clear distinction between Citizenship and cultural origin. Muslims in Greece, and Christians in Turkey, should each work to strengthen the nation of which they are citizens.

I guess that the fear of the Greek government is that a group that calls itself "Turkish" might attempt to blur this distinction, and gradually encourage secessionist tendencies. Personally speaking, I think the Greek government has a point: Thrace already borders Turkey, thracian muslims already cross into Turkey on a daily basis - many of them even to buy their groceries - if they start calling themselves Turks as well then within 30 or 50 years the desire for secession will be very strong.

The case of Cyprus is very different, I don't think we can make a meaningful analogy.

[mehmet]

Mikkie,

people that were in the past Greek Cypriots and converted to Islam are whatever they want to be. In my own experience my family on my fathers side identified themselves as Turkish Cypriots.

The issue isn't about what you or anyone else says. It shouldn't even be about what the state you are living in says. If you are Kurdish, Turkish, Macedonian, Greek you should have the right to speak your language unhindered, have schooling in that language, and not be discriminated against by the state for making that choice.

It seems there is so much sensitivity in Greece about this and that the Greek state, like the Turkish state has some progress to make in the issue of the treatment of minorities.

[-mikkie2-]

Turkcyp,

What make you Turkish?

Indeed, what makes me Greek.

Can you tell the difference between ethnicity and nationality?

Indeed why should we be divided in Cyprus when we are essentially the same?

It was you that started to make this distinction not me. I was simply pointing that out to you and you took the bait

You too have a good weekend.

[magikthrill]

what makes a person Greek...

in my opinion they can trace back their heritage to two things:
1) Ancient Greeks who lived on the current land of Greece as well as parts of Asia Minor and Eastern Thrace.
2) Turks who for whatever reason enjoyed sexually assaulting the women of the people they occupied and resulted in a mixing of blood

However, #2 did not occur in certain areas of Greece (eg Sfakia in Crete)

[metecyp]

The issue isn't about what you or anyone else says. It shouldn't even be about what the state you are living in says. If you are Kurdish, Turkish, Macedonian, Greek you should have the right to speak your language unhindered, have schooling in that language, and not be discriminated against by the state for making that choice.

I completely agree. If a group of people feel Turkish, then they are Turkish and the state has no right to claim otherwise. Would it be right if the US government declared that Latinos in the US are not actually Latinos but Catholics, fearing that they might want to join to Mexico? Isn't this ridicilous?

[Piratis]

The issue isn't about what you or anyone else says. It shouldn't even be about what the state you are living in says. If you are Kurdish, Turkish, Macedonian, Greek you should have the right to speak your language unhindered, have schooling in that language, and not be discriminated against by the state for making that choice.

I agree. But should such minorities be allowed to cut and take part of the country just for themselves, or to demand that their minority has political equality?

What you say is correct, however correct things should apply universally and not to have double standards.

[mehmet]

I agree that there should be no double standards and I am not claiming that Turkish Cypriots should separate form Cyprus. If they had historically lived in a specific part of Cyprus that would be another matter.