Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

turkcyp,

Your post is well understood. I am not sure how TCs are under the RoC. From what I've udnerstood from news and these posts though, TCs are allowed to obtain RoC passports from the legal state. However, I'm not sure if TCs are allowed to live in the legal state.

Maybe you can clarify this for me (or anyone else)?

[Alexandros Lordos]

turkcyp,

Your post is well understood. I am not sure how TCs are under the RoC. From what I've udnerstood from news and these posts though, TCs are allowed to obtain RoC passports from the legal state. However, I'm not sure if TCs are allowed to live in the legal state.

Maybe you can clarify this for me (or anyone else)?

sure they can ...

[turkcyp]

Actually I would like to add more things related to this issue,

Don't pretend that TCs and Turkey are unrelated and that TCs have nothing to do with Turkey and her actions. I don't know if you call Turkey your "motherland", but most TCs do. And as we say "The sins of parents bring troubles to their children" and this is true for both TCs and GCs.

RoC is a legal and sovereign entity and nothing justifies its actiona against its TC citizens because Turkey ‘invaded’ Cyprus. We have discussed this before with you as well Piratis.

Governments can not differentiate its laws to its citizens saying that this portion of the society comes from an ethnicity I am currently at war with.

Let me give you couple of examples,

During the second world war, USA had collected and puts majority its Japanese origin citizens into concentration camps. This was illegal. There is no reason to justify this. The only thing you can say that this person is committing the act of treason. And even at that point you have to judge everybody individually and give punishment individually. You can not say that all this ethnicity is committing act of treason.

Another example, during the 60s in Turkey there were a lot of restriction put onto its Greek citizens because of Cyprus problem. This is illegal as well, and EU courts have been pushing Turkey to lift these restrictions.

Let me give you a good example instead of a bad one. Israel vs. Palestine. In Israel the Arab citizens enjoy their constitutional rights despite the fact that Israel is technically still in war with Palestinians. Of course there are backlashes coming from its Jews to these Arabs but state can not discriminate against these Arabs on the basis that they are Palestinians, and Israel is at war with Palestine. Israel do however try to find individual Arabs cases where an individual is acting the act of treason, and after court cases they put him into jail.

These examples can be increased in number if you guys wish. Basically what I am trying to say is, you can not legally justify stripping your TC citizens its individual rights because you are in war with Turkey. Even if you guys are let’s say in war with only TCs (lets assume that we are revolting alone and there is no Turkey backing us) you still can not do that.

You have to find people one by one and charge them with treason, give a fair trial and put them into jail. Other than that you can not simply says these TCs are these Turks are committing this act so all the TCs loose their rights.

Take care,

[turkcyp]

turkcyp,

Your post is well understood. I am not sure how TCs are under the RoC. From what I've udnerstood from news and these posts though, TCs are allowed to obtain RoC passports from the legal state. However, I'm not sure if TCs are allowed to live in the legal state.

Maybe you can clarify this for me (or anyone else)?

The situation in Cyprus is as such,

RoC does not deny our citizenship. (They give us RoC passports for example or ID cards).

They also do not deny our right to live in south. I mean I can go and rent an apartment in south and start living there.

But they do deny some of our rights from 1960 constitution. For example TC should be able to choose 1/3 of MPs, and vice president in a separate election. This is denied. There have to be a TC judged appointed to supreme court. This is denied. Etc. etc.

Basically all of the rights that gives TCs and distinction from GCs are denied.

Oh by the way, a recent court case also shoved that my property rights are also denied. If I go back to south I can not claim my property if some GC is using it. I do not know if they will let me have my property back if it is not being used by a GC. I have not tried it, and it never made the headlines in newspapers so for simplicity let’s assume they would.

This is the current situation in Cyprus in terms of what you have asked,

Take care,

[Piratis]

Turkcyp,
What you want is to solve your problem, get all your 1960 rights and everything, while at the same time you keep the occupation and the problem of GCs remains unsolved.

With a few words: will not happen.

The earlier you understand this, the better for all of us.

RoC entered in the EU in a perfectly legal way and from a legal perspective we are covered.

Basically you guys can win in only one way: Force.
When it comes to legal issues you loose (because you are wrong).
Both of these are proven by reality (turkey continues the occupation by force, while court cases are won by GCs), and there is nothing much to argue about.
Telling me that TCs will gain something through courts is like if I tell you that GCs will gain something by war.

If you disagree ... sue me

[turkcyp]

Turkcyp,
What you want is to solve your problem, get all your 1960 rights and everything, while at the same time you keep the occupation and the problem of GCs remains unsolved.

With a few words: will not happen.

The earlier you understand this, the better for all of us.

Ah logic, great logic,

What would I do with my 1960 constitution rights if I am not going to use them. Please use your logic before you say something. Supporting occupation means I am not moving under the jurisdiction of RoC, and if I am not moving under the jurisdiction of RoC then I will not be able to use my rights from 1960 constitution anyway. So why would I be wanting those rights, if I really want parturition. Use your logic before making accusations at least.

RoC entered in the EU in a perfectly legal way and from a legal perspective we are covered.

Basically you guys can win in only one way: Force.
When it comes to legal issues you loose (because you are wrong).

Both of these are proven by reality (turkey continues the occupation by force, while court cases are won by GCs), and there is nothing much to argue about.
Telling me that TCs will gain something through courts is like if I tell you that GCs will gain something by war.

1) Never said that RoC in Eu is illegal. I believe it is illegal but I do not decide about the legality. Outside courts do. So basically whether I accept it or not it is not illegal.
2) You have no idea of what being in EU means. First of all, there is no one court case against either TCs or Turkey in EU courts. EU courts do not have jurisdiction over Turkey yet, (not before full membership). You are confusing ECHR with EU.
3) Thirdly do you really thing that if TCs apply to ECHR about their constitutional rights they would not win. You can not claim that we have occupy your land and apply to ECHR and at the same time refuse to give TCs land back when they decide to turn back to south as in the last case in RoC. Even your own courts decided that it is against human rights RoC stopping TC get their land back in south.
4) And do you really think if all the TCs turn back to south, and the only people left behind in north is the settlers and the TCs that used to live in north before 1974. And after this if they decide to use their constitutional rights, then RoC restricting use of these rights would be found legal in EU courts. If as you claim RoC is accepted to EU with 1960 constitution, then our rights from that constitution will be enforceable in EU courts. All TCs are doing right now, is to wait and see if there is a political solution to problem.

Do not worry. TCs started to get their rights back slowly but surely from 1960 constitution. Pretty much every TC that I know now have renewed their IDs and passports with the new ones. So it is obvious that we are citizens of RoC.

Then the court cases start to come. First as you see as in the last property case in south. You have to give our property back if I decide to move back to south.

After I got my property back and establish my residency do not worry we will try to elect 1/3 of MPs and vice president as well. We will see if you will stop us, or do not accept our representatives as legit. If you do not, then there are other courts that we will apply in EU as well.

Do not worry the wheels are turning….

If you disagree ... sue me

What would I sue you. I will sue RoC.

What you are doing is to get all your rights back through legal cases and when it comes to giving our rights back you say it is a political situation. We will see how this will hold in the courts…

I am very comfortable from where I sit. It’s you who is living in a delusional world.

But keep on dreaming that you can keep the whole island to yourself without giving our rights back….

[magikthrill]

turkcyp,

the reason why you cannot get your property back is because the people that Turkey caused to displace would have no where to live. After the illegal occupation is put to a halt then you will probably get your land back.
However, if you find the RoC to be illegal I don't see why you care about living there anyway.

What I'm basicallly trying to say is that you cannot come out as a victim on the property issue. The reason why people were displaced in the first place is because of Turkey. If you want your land back then ask Turkey to help you out. If you support Turkey's actions then don't compaing about you are basically forfeiting your property rights (you know the same way GCs would have done if they voted for the Annan plan).

[Piratis]

So as I said you want to keep 1/3rd of the island just for yourselves and share what remains.

Are you sure you would feel safe to support the violation of human rights of Greek Cypriots and at the same time live among them? I wouldn't feel so safe if I were you.

The courts didn't solve our problem. They will not solve yours either. For example Titina Loizidou is supposed to get her property back, but you do not allow her. We will not allow you either.

As I said, your problem will end, when our problem will end. If you believe the opposite then keep dreaming.

[insan]

Muslim union to contest ban
A Greek Muslim group banned by the country’s highest civil court this month on grounds of national security for calling itself Turkish has said it will appeal the decision at the European Court of Human Rights.

“Following the publication of the official ruling, the Turkish Union of Xanthi... shall apply to the European Court of Human Rights in search of justice which has been denied to it within Greece,” the group said in a statement dated January 19, obtained by AFP yesterday. The statement is co-signed by 12 other Greek Muslim groups, including its issuer, the “Consultative Committee of the Turkish Minority of Western Thrace.”

Thrace is home to a 100,000-strong Muslim, Turkish-speaking community that has often been a source of friction between Greece and Turkey. Athens recognizes the community as Muslim but not as ethnically Turkish, citing the international 1923 Treaty of Lausanne that established modern Turkey. Established in 1927, the Turkish Union of Xanthi numbers some 2,400 members.



http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_ar ... 2005_52120

[turkcyp]

turkcyp,

the reason why you cannot get your property back is because the people that Turkey caused to displace would have no where to live. After the illegal occupation is put to a halt then you will probably get your land back.
However, if you find the RoC to be illegal I don't see why you care about living there anyway.

What I'm basicallly trying to say is that you cannot come out as a victim on the property issue. The reason why people were displaced in the first place is because of Turkey. If you want your land back then ask Turkey to help you out. If you support Turkey's actions then don't compaing about you are basically forfeiting your property rights (you know the same way GCs would have done if they voted for the Annan plan).

You have asked what of our rights are restricted and I told you so. No need to get defensive. As I have told million of times, you can not restrict rights of your citizens in a country just because the kin of those citizens invaded your country.

If you say you can, then you are talking about political solution, not a legal one because in law you can correct one mistake by making another one. It is very simple really.

So as I said you want to keep 1/3rd of the island just for yourselves and share what remains.

Again the very same flawed logic. If I move back to RoC, then I will not be keeping 1/3 of the island would I.

Are you sure you would feel safe to support the violation of human rights of Greek Cypriots and at the same time live among them? I wouldn't feel so safe if I were you.

How am I violating human rights of GCs, when I move back to RoC jurisdiction. Can you explain this to me please. So basically even if I move back to RoC jurisdiction and start living there and stop using the GC property completely, I am still violating the human rights of GCs. Whooa. I knew that you guys are greedy but this is to much really.

The way I see after a TC moves back to RoC, and stops using and obtaining any financial or any other benefit from the lost GC property, then I am not violating any human right. You have a problem sue Turkey as you have been doing recently.

The courts didn't solve our problem. They will not solve yours either. For example Titina Loizidou is supposed to get her property back, but you do not allow her. We will not allow you either.

Your problem is not with me, if I move back to RoC, as I have told you. I do not know if you have a problem with TCs in general though. It seems that you do.

As I said, your problem will end, when our problem will end. If you believe the opposite then keep dreaming.

The only thing you said that I agree wholly. It seems that even if we turn back to RoC and do not support invasion in any way other than “believing that it was fair, and legal” (at least allow me to have my own thoughts, if USA start restricting rights of Americans that believe Iraq war is illegal, then half of the country should have no rights ) you still will not give our rights back.

I would not expect anything better anyway. So your problem inherently becomes my problem.