Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

Pyr, no one is denying that GC properties are being sold one way or another, but what i am saying is that the precautions that are being taken in order to stop these acts, are affecting the people who genuinely own and want to sell lands as well, they are just getting caught up in there, i mean as if the conditions for business are not bad enough anyways, they are even being attacked in other countries, i think the GC propaganda and anti-TRNC fight has gone way beyond its deserved limits, they have so overdone it that they are unable to justify their actions by blaming Turks anymore...

Alexis, like you say, Turkey might have saved the TCs while committing crimes against the GCs, but this definitely does not justify the embargoes placed on the TCs! i mean we are Cypriots too aren't we? if all the countries are so against Turkeys actions in Cyprus, then why don't they just pressurise Turkey to move out instead of ruining our lives?

Why is everyone fighting Turkey in the expense of the TCs? Don't you think that there is something utterly wrong in the way this situation is being handled?

[Pyrpolizer]

Shah,

If you think I take joy for seeing the TCs suffering, it seems you never understood me my friend.I understand perfectly there is unfairness against the TC compatriots as well. However it ALL originates from the unfairness against the GC refugees. We the GCs never pre-planned your isolation, in fact we never have imagined you would end like that. We thought you got the best areas of Cyprus, under the worst conditions you would be much better than us. Beleive me you don't know how we were 15 years ago....or 30 years ago.
I was discussing with a TC in this forum in the past how you ended up isolated. He quite honestly told me this happened when the "trnc" authorities decided to throw away the RoC stamps.
Anyway we are now in a position that all GC refugees are second class citizens as well as all the TCs. Only a solution would save us, what can I say?

HOWEVER my question was not what you answered. Please read it agin, I really need an answer for that. Not to debate it but to learn something.

I completely agree the major problem here is Turkey. Unfortunately the TCs are suffering because Turkey is doing the occupation and the TCs are the humans that keep the occupation alive, and whatever illegalities and ethnic cleansing against the GCs this means.
You cannot separate Turkeys actions from the actions of TCs. After all it is TCs who sell the GC properties to foreigners not Turkey.

NB. I am waiting your answer to my previous post i.e as to how the GC properties were split

[halil]

why do we need international law to sell our own lands?

Since when they became yours? Do you have any legal deeds to show to support your claims?

Or maybe I should now declared the Piratis Republic of Cyprus recognized only by my mother, and start printing out fake deeds claiming that I own the universe?

The fact is you illegally occupy our lands. And trying to sell them out using the fake deeds you print out is just one of the many crimes you commit.

DON'T FORGET THAT TURKS ARE LİVİNG İN CYPRUS SİNCE 1571.WE HAVE OUR OWN DEEDS:THEY ARE FROM OTTOMAN TİME.TELL ME WHWN THE GREEKS RULE THE CYPRUS:YOU ARE TELLİNG TO EVERYBODY THAT YOU HAVE EVERY RİGHTS İN CYPRUS AND WE DON!T HAVE:DON'T SCARE MY KENYAN FRİEND FROM THESE PEOPLE:THAT'S WHAT THEY DO ALWAYS SCARİNG THE WORLD:DON'T WORRY SOON WORLD WİLL UNDERSTANT THE TRUTH İN CYPRUS:HOW WE WERE EQUAL PARTNERS:WHAT THEY WİLL SAY TO YOU THAT WE ARE MİNORİTY:THEY NEVER THİNKS THAT WE WERE ONE TİME RULERS OF THE CYPRUS:THEY NEVER TELLS HOW WE CAME TO MİNORİTY:DO YOU KNOW MORE THAN 400000TURKİSH CYPRİOTS Lives in U.K.YOU WELL COME TO NORTH CYPRUS:İF THEY LİKE OR NOT TURKİSH REPUBLİC OF CYPRUS İS REALİTY:

[shahmaran]

hey Alexis, i do disagree with lands that don't really belong to one to be sold, however i also do believe that many people sell the lands that were given to them in order to escape to other countries, to escape the embargoes and the low living standards of the TRNC, which is desperately supported by the GCs.

on the other hand, i come from a mainly TCs village, everything we own was always ours, we didn't exchange it we didn't buy it after 74, we were there before the war and we are there now, however we are being put into the same box along with everyone else who might or might not be selling GC lands and being labeled as thieves and criminals and occupiers, thousands of complaint letters sent to Channel 4 i believe it was, to stop their holiday programs that advertise property sales in the TRNC is a very good example of the kind of indiscriminate mentality that i am talking about, these are in fact the real insensitive people, people who forget that there might be other Cypriots in the North tyring to get on with their lives under very difficult circumstances, sadly, having to sell their family lands to foreigners in order to move to other countries so they can provide their children with a more promising future is part of it.

Great post Shah, explains some things that most GCs have no idea really.Thanks.

I am still wondering though: In 1974 we had some 180,000 GC refugees and their place was taken by about 60,000 TC refugees who moved from south to north. Some 60,000 TCs were original inhabitants at the north so they never hd to move.

Are you saying that the GC properties were split among those 60,000 TC refugees only? I mean the original inhabitants got nothing??
This sounds strange to me because if this is what really happened then the TC refugees must have taken 3 times more than what the original TC inhabitants of the north ever had!!

Could you please clarify this?

if you are suggesting that, just because some people (ie. me) never moved, we must have still taken over some GC property anywyas because it is our "share", then i am pretty sure we havent, but i wouldnt know about the others, i am not aware how the entire division took place in regard of sharing the GC properties and lands, i know a few people in Lefke who use GC property as a restaurant and kahve, and they have refused offers many times because it doesnt belong to them, plus there are many properties that are simply unused, and im sure it is the same with land, therefore i cannot really answer your question for others, simply because i do not know, but i am curious to know what you are trying to get to ?

[Alexis]

if you are suggesting that, just because some people (ie. me) never moved, we must have still taken over some GC property anywyas because it is our "share", then i am pretty sure we havent, but i wouldnt know about the others, i am not aware how the entire division took place in regard of sharing the GC properties and lands, i know a few people in Lefke who use GC property as a restaurant and kahve, and they have refused offers many times because it doesnt belong to them, plus there are many properties that are simply unused, and im sure it is the same with land, therefore i cannot really answer your question for others, simply because i do not know, but i am curious to know what you are trying to get to ?

I might be wrong but I think Pyro's implication here is that there is clearly a large amount of GC-owned land in the TRNC which must have been allocated to someone or at least be in someone's control that is 'in excess' of the land that you could claim had been exchanged between the TC and GC refugee communities post-1974 (or even post-1963 if you prefer). Essentially half the Cyprus problem for the GC community is with regards this land some of which may have been gifted to settlers and Turkish military and I guess some of which may have been handed to to some of the original inhabitants. Either way you slice the pie this land has to be accounted for. The reason a land exchange was espoused in the Annan Plan was also exactly for this reason - the land imbalance. As you say this land has probably been dissipated throughout the TRNC in many different ways and there is probably still much unused land - perhaps this is administered by the TRNC authorities?
Either way there is a lot of prime real estate in the TRNC which is owned by GCs and this should be accounted for by the TRNC as of course should land owned by TC refugees in the south by the RoC.

[Pyrpolizer]

I already told you Shah I simply wanted to learn. I wasn't trying to make a trap for you or anything. Just wanted to learn.

Now if you want to hear what I learned from others I can tell you.But again I cannot really say for sure what happened. Don't get suspicious over me. I am always clear on my intentions.

[Pyrpolizer]

DON'T FORGET THAT TURKS ARE LIVING IN CYPRUS SINCE 1571.WE HAVE OUR OWN DEEDS:THEY ARE FROM OTTOMAN TIME

In your imagination yes maybe, Just show me one.

DO YOU KNOW MORE THAN 400000TURKISH CYPRIOTS Lives in U.K

Do you know they are only 60,000?

[shahmaran]

I already told you Shah I simply wanted to learn. I wasn't trying to make a trap for you or anything. Just wanted to learn.

Now if you want to hear what I learned from others I can tell you.But again I cannot really say for sure what happened. Don't get suspicious over me. I am always clear on my intentions.

well do tell....

[Pyrpolizer]

OK this is what I learned from someone living in Kyrenia.
In 1974 he said it was a chaos. Everybody was simply taking a house or land or whatever and declaring it HIS.There were people who got 2-3 houses or more. By 1976 they started issuing titled deeds...

I wasn't told if those title deeds were necessarily for what they grabbed. I was too schocked to think straight at that moment. I simply asked "well haven't you got anything"? Sure the guy said, my house was old, I got a brand new one and much bigger. I also got one for my daughter and another one that I now rent to others...
When karasakalis started coming he said I demolished all other houses neighbouring mine as I didn't want them be my neighbours.

[shahmaran]

Yes but this is nothing new is it?


I mean apart from the demolition part, thats pretty funny dark humour right there..