From the time this muppet said 'Turkish Peace Intervention' or something ridiculous like that then you know its just not worth replying to this guy. The call for Enosis was virtually dead by the time the coup from the Greek Junta took place - it had virtually no support in Cyprus or in Greece too.
These people that call the Turkish invasion a 'peace intervention' have a warped meaning of the word PEACE.
ENOSIS
by the_snake_and_the_crane » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:34 am
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by shahmaran » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:44 am
the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:These people that call the Turkish invasion a 'peace intervention' have a warped meaning of the word PEACE.
yeah you are right, the enclaves are actually the way forward
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by Murataga » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:58 am
the_snake_and_the_crane said: "The call for Enosis was virtually dead by the time the coup from the Greek Junta took place - it had virtually no support in Cyprus or in Greece too"
Perhaps my post with the following didn`t catch his eye. Hence, I repeat it:
6 April 1973, from Archbishop Makarios III interview with John Harrison of the London Daily Express:
"Union of Cyprus with Greece has always been the national aspiration of the Greek Cypriots. This national feeling has deep roots and the Greek Cypriots would favor Enosis under any circumstances. Various factors, however, and mainly the opposition of Turkey do not make Enosis attainable."
the_snake_and_the_crane, I think I`ll take the Archbishop`s word rather than your`s
Perhaps my post with the following didn`t catch his eye. Hence, I repeat it:
6 April 1973, from Archbishop Makarios III interview with John Harrison of the London Daily Express:
"Union of Cyprus with Greece has always been the national aspiration of the Greek Cypriots. This national feeling has deep roots and the Greek Cypriots would favor Enosis under any circumstances. Various factors, however, and mainly the opposition of Turkey do not make Enosis attainable."
the_snake_and_the_crane, I think I`ll take the Archbishop`s word rather than your`s
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by kafenes » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:07 am
muratagawrote:
As Long as you see the Greek national flag being waved at all holidays and even non holidays I guess the link with Greece is still very strong. As long as the Turkish flags flies high in the north then the Greek flag will as well. This is what I see anyway.
Back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and perhaps in the 80s, the GC community was a fervent supporter of ENOSIS which lead the island into chaos and misery. How does the GC community look back to the lethal aspirations of ENOSIS; and does it still have supporters today?
As Long as you see the Greek national flag being waved at all holidays and even non holidays I guess the link with Greece is still very strong. As long as the Turkish flags flies high in the north then the Greek flag will as well. This is what I see anyway.
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by Venizelist » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:03 am
There is nothing wrong with Greek Cypriots loving their Greek background as well.free_cyprus wrote:i have read over two thousand none fiction books . but i have never read soo much shit anywhere as in this forum regarding the question of cyrprus ........... its the same old same old crap and more crap and more crap. in fact you lot are soooo soaked in shit from tuekey and greece you smell like them sound like them and think you are one of them but your not thats where the tragedy lies the allusion that you are greeks and turks.............................your cypriots well fuck i thought you were cypriots but most of you are traiters and wankers and should be charged with treason along. along with turkey greece and britain for crimes against cyprus people.........................................most of you in here are to stupid to uneducated and to brainwashed to know any diffrent......................there are two things that cyprus is famous for potatoes and donkeys and a donkey has more brains then most of you in here who open you mouths wihouth thinking
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RR5oTJV_www
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by Piratis » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:28 am
Welcome back again Murataga.
Now to answer your question:
The whole of Greece and Greek people have been under foreign rule for centuries, mostly under the Ottomans. During their rule the Ottoman Turks colonized many of the areas they had under their rule, and many of those that the Ottomans ruled became Muslim, and therefore Muslim/Turkish minorities formed in those territories. This happened in Cyprus, in most other big Greek islands, in mainland Greece, in Bulgaria etc.
When Greeks started gaining their independence this didn't happen in one go. It happened gradually, with Greek territories that were under foreign rule being liberated either by war or they were given to the Greek state.
Cyprus was just a territory under the British, not a country, just a colonized territory. In fact Britain had some proposals that Cyprus would be given to the Greek state under some conditions long before 1960.
For the great majority of Cypriots liberation meant ending the British colonialism in Cyprus and joining the Greek state like it happened to the other Greek parts when they were liberated.
Union with Greece was Cypriots right. In fact the resolution 1541 about decolonization defines "integration into an independent State" as a legitimate option for the colonized territories to choose from.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
The British could have just make a referendum as early as the 20s or 30s and ask Cypriots to choose their own destiny in a democratic way. Nobodies human rights would be violated, there would be no violence, no refugees or anything like that. That would be the democratic and also legitimate and peaceful way to go.
I understand that TCs might not liked union with Greece for their own reasons. However the main reason that TCs turned against GCs and their cause is because they were used by Turkey and the British colonialists in their "divide and rule" policies in order for Turkey and Britain to get a piece of Cyprus that they wanted for their own geopolitical interests.
Thats until 1960.
After 1960 and especially after the end of the intercommunal conflict in 1968, most Greek Cypriots accepted that Cyprus would be an independent state (although what they gave us was more a semi-independence).
The coup of 1974 had nothing to do with the great majority of Greek Cypriots. In fact the coupists killed several 100s of GC resistance fighters and no TC was hurt during their coup until the Turkish invasion had started.
The coupists in Greece came to power with the support of CIA since the Americans were afraid that Greece would join the communist block. Then it was time to bring down what they called the "red monk of the little Mediterranean Cuba" (Makarios), and while doing that why not satisfy the demands of their good ally Turkey in one go?
If the GCs that wanted union with Greece in 68 or 74 were already a minority, today they almost do not exist. Even those that fly the Greek flags, if they had to choose they would not choose Cyprus being a far district of Athens.
On the other hand, the TCs that want partition is as high as ever. And unlike union with Greece, partition has never been their right, since it involves things like ethnic cleansing and mass human rights violations.
I hope the TCs will one day realize that being a protected 18% minority of a European Cyprus with boosted representation in Cyprus and EU, it is way better than being the 0.1% of Turks with basically no saying for anything important. Thats why an independent and united Cyprus suits the interests of all Cypriots better.
And if we are united, then independence will be even better for us. Not only they will not be able to use their divide and rule tactics to take military bases and other benefits from us, but we will be able to much easier use way more of our resources (e.g. oil) for our own common benefit.
Now to answer your question:
The whole of Greece and Greek people have been under foreign rule for centuries, mostly under the Ottomans. During their rule the Ottoman Turks colonized many of the areas they had under their rule, and many of those that the Ottomans ruled became Muslim, and therefore Muslim/Turkish minorities formed in those territories. This happened in Cyprus, in most other big Greek islands, in mainland Greece, in Bulgaria etc.
When Greeks started gaining their independence this didn't happen in one go. It happened gradually, with Greek territories that were under foreign rule being liberated either by war or they were given to the Greek state.
Cyprus was just a territory under the British, not a country, just a colonized territory. In fact Britain had some proposals that Cyprus would be given to the Greek state under some conditions long before 1960.
For the great majority of Cypriots liberation meant ending the British colonialism in Cyprus and joining the Greek state like it happened to the other Greek parts when they were liberated.
Union with Greece was Cypriots right. In fact the resolution 1541 about decolonization defines "integration into an independent State" as a legitimate option for the colonized territories to choose from.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decolonizat ... ration.htm
The British could have just make a referendum as early as the 20s or 30s and ask Cypriots to choose their own destiny in a democratic way. Nobodies human rights would be violated, there would be no violence, no refugees or anything like that. That would be the democratic and also legitimate and peaceful way to go.
I understand that TCs might not liked union with Greece for their own reasons. However the main reason that TCs turned against GCs and their cause is because they were used by Turkey and the British colonialists in their "divide and rule" policies in order for Turkey and Britain to get a piece of Cyprus that they wanted for their own geopolitical interests.
Thats until 1960.
After 1960 and especially after the end of the intercommunal conflict in 1968, most Greek Cypriots accepted that Cyprus would be an independent state (although what they gave us was more a semi-independence).
The coup of 1974 had nothing to do with the great majority of Greek Cypriots. In fact the coupists killed several 100s of GC resistance fighters and no TC was hurt during their coup until the Turkish invasion had started.
The coupists in Greece came to power with the support of CIA since the Americans were afraid that Greece would join the communist block. Then it was time to bring down what they called the "red monk of the little Mediterranean Cuba" (Makarios), and while doing that why not satisfy the demands of their good ally Turkey in one go?
If the GCs that wanted union with Greece in 68 or 74 were already a minority, today they almost do not exist. Even those that fly the Greek flags, if they had to choose they would not choose Cyprus being a far district of Athens.
On the other hand, the TCs that want partition is as high as ever. And unlike union with Greece, partition has never been their right, since it involves things like ethnic cleansing and mass human rights violations.
I hope the TCs will one day realize that being a protected 18% minority of a European Cyprus with boosted representation in Cyprus and EU, it is way better than being the 0.1% of Turks with basically no saying for anything important. Thats why an independent and united Cyprus suits the interests of all Cypriots better.
And if we are united, then independence will be even better for us. Not only they will not be able to use their divide and rule tactics to take military bases and other benefits from us, but we will be able to much easier use way more of our resources (e.g. oil) for our own common benefit.
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by Natty » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:33 am
pitsilos wrote:it never had supporters to start with. hence as to why the coup failed big time.
there might have been a vote prior to the 60's, but if people were told of a violent/forceful enosis they would have voted aaginst it.
but can i ask the same question in reverse?
I think what Pitsilos (and please correct me if I'm wrong
) is saying is that, yes the majority of Greek Cypriots did support enosis, but they did not support any form of enosis that was forceful on people and that did not respect people's human rights...
Personally I feel that that is one very strong reason why support dropped dramatically after the Junta/CIA and EOKA B got involved...Their kind of enosis was not the kind of enosis that many Greek Cypriots felt they had fought for...
Last edited by Natty on Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Murataga » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:02 am
Hi Piratis-thanks for the kind message, I appreciate it.
Trying to answer the erroneous conclusions in your message requires at least 10 new threads... so I`ll try to stick to the point for now. The question is simply how today`s GCs view ENOSIS? Do you look back at it with sympathy, see it a failure, a mistake, an ongoing desire, etc. ... or what? In that regard, you mentioned:
If the GCs that wanted union with Greece in 68 or 74 were already a minority, today they almost do not exist.
Given the following and hundreds of others statements made by GC leaders kind of discredits your above statement... All ego aside, wouldn`t you agree?
Should I take your word or his in the following?
6 April 1973, from Archbishop Makarios III interview with John Harrison of the London Daily Express:
"Union of Cyprus with Greece has always been the national aspiration of the Greek Cypriots. This national feeling has deep roots and the Greek Cypriots would favor Enosis under any circumstances. Various factors, however, and mainly the opposition of Turkey do not make Enosis attainable."
ohhh! Here is another one of my favorites:
14 March 1971, Archbishop Makarios III speech at Yialousa
Cyprus is Greek. Cyprus has been Greek since the dawn of its history, and it will remain Greek. Greek and undivided we have taken it over, Greek and undivided we shall preserve it. Greek and undivided we shall deliver it to Greece.
Trying to answer the erroneous conclusions in your message requires at least 10 new threads... so I`ll try to stick to the point for now. The question is simply how today`s GCs view ENOSIS? Do you look back at it with sympathy, see it a failure, a mistake, an ongoing desire, etc. ... or what? In that regard, you mentioned:
If the GCs that wanted union with Greece in 68 or 74 were already a minority, today they almost do not exist.
Given the following and hundreds of others statements made by GC leaders kind of discredits your above statement... All ego aside, wouldn`t you agree?
Should I take your word or his in the following?
6 April 1973, from Archbishop Makarios III interview with John Harrison of the London Daily Express:
"Union of Cyprus with Greece has always been the national aspiration of the Greek Cypriots. This national feeling has deep roots and the Greek Cypriots would favor Enosis under any circumstances. Various factors, however, and mainly the opposition of Turkey do not make Enosis attainable."
ohhh! Here is another one of my favorites:
14 March 1971, Archbishop Makarios III speech at Yialousa
Cyprus is Greek. Cyprus has been Greek since the dawn of its history, and it will remain Greek. Greek and undivided we have taken it over, Greek and undivided we shall preserve it. Greek and undivided we shall deliver it to Greece.
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