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WHAT IS YOUR ADVISE to solve the Cyprus Problem ?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Do you want solition ?

Yes
6
86%
No
1
14%
 
Total votes : 7

Postby Viewpoint » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:51 pm

askimwos wrote:No Vp the GCs have no hidden agenda and are not planning anything. As I said we want Cypriots to be masters in their own land. Do you know any other country in the world where foreign nations have the right to intervene as they please. All they need to find is an excuse. A couple of bombs by a few spies or a mad man, may be interpreted as a thread to the new contribution by any of the 3 guarantor powers.

Sorry, I don't trust neither Turkey, nor Greece or UK on this - we have seen it in the past - both TMT and EOKA b were created and controlled by Turkey and Greece. Not to mention that the UK is not a country to be trusted either, as in the case of them feeling threatened for the status of their bases they will not hesitate to create something similar (divide and rule).


Have you ever thought that we feel the same about as you feel about Turkey Greece and the UK and what do you advise we do, put yourselves in our shoes paying specific attention the the population imbalance.
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Postby askimwos » Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:36 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
askimwos wrote:No Vp the GCs have no hidden agenda and are not planning anything. As I said we want Cypriots to be masters in their own land. Do you know any other country in the world where foreign nations have the right to intervene as they please. All they need to find is an excuse. A couple of bombs by a few spies or a mad man, may be interpreted as a thread to the new contribution by any of the 3 guarantor powers.

Sorry, I don't trust neither Turkey, nor Greece or UK on this - we have seen it in the past - both TMT and EOKA b were created and controlled by Turkey and Greece. Not to mention that the UK is not a country to be trusted either, as in the case of them feeling threatened for the status of their bases they will not hesitate to create something similar (divide and rule).


Have you ever thought that we feel the same about as you feel about Turkey Greece and the UK and what do you advise we do, put yourselves in our shoes paying specific attention the the population imbalance.



Sorry VP, but I cannot do anything about the population imbalance. In the same way I cannot do anything about the population imbalance of black people in the UK or greek people in turkey, scotish people in GB or basque people in spain, etc, etc. According to your logic wherever there is a population imbalance a foreign power should have the right to intervene whenever he pleases. And don't say that the cases that I have stated are not similar, all the cases include some kind of conflict and in most of them even a more severe ones.

I suggest you take care to read carefully my previous post. Here it is once again:

VP, we dont want them to stay in the same way that we don't want greek troops to stay. Don't forget that we speak about a demilitarised island. An international force with the right mandate can oversee the implementation of the solution. What is wrong with this? Why should we have foreign powers have a say on everything that te United Cyprus can and cannot do? Why the hell create a Cyprus that will be a puppet state and protectorate of Turkey, Greece and the UK? No one needs foreign patrons here. Unless, you are yourself one of them.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:14 pm

askimwos
Sorry VP, but I cannot do anything about the population imbalance. In the same way I cannot do anything about the population imbalance of black people in the UK or greek people in turkey, scotish people in GB or basque people in spain, etc, etc. According to your logic wherever there is a population imbalance a foreign power should have the right to intervene whenever he pleases. And don't say that the cases that I have stated are not similar, all the cases include some kind of conflict and in most of them even a more severe ones.


So does this include the Indian or Pakistani population in the UK, did they once rule or own the UK, or have a partnership agreement like ours? news to me. Those people chose to go live their under UK rules and abide by them. The Basque are still fighting for their own areas and the Scottish have theirs, so these are not examples that back up your arguement.

We have a totally different situation more like Serbia, Montenegro or Switzerland, you may wish to see us just like your Turk hater leader as just another minority but that we will never be. We have a stake in this island and we will never give that up. You have to accept to share under a BBF solution or alternative see division cemented forever the choice is yours.

The population imbalance does not necessarily mean that more powerful nations have to invade but if one is forcing and abusing the other with risk of anniahalation then action has to be taken to save the weaker party.

I suggest you take care to read carefully my previous post. Here it is once again:

VP, we dont want them to stay in the same way that we don't want greek troops to stay. Don't forget that we speak about a demilitarised island. An international force with the right mandate can oversee the implementation of the solution. What is wrong with this? Why should we have foreign powers have a say on everything that te United Cyprus can and cannot do? Why the hell create a Cyprus that will be a puppet state and protectorate of Turkey, Greece and the UK? No one needs foreign patrons here. Unless, you are yourself one of them.


I have read it and still feel firstly there is no need for any army presence but still feel uncomfortable with no Turkish guarantee up until Turkey enters the EU and would have to insist on this as we do not trust any mandated bodies to act swiftly in times of crisis.
Why do we need them you ask the answer is simple its all a matter of trust, which we have none of.
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Postby Kikapu » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:33 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
I have read it and still feel firstly there is no need for any army presence but still feel uncomfortable with no Turkish guarantee up until Turkey enters the EU and would have to insist on this as we do not trust any mandated bodies to act swiftly in times of crisis.
Why do we need them you ask the answer is simple its all a matter of trust, which we have none of.


VP,

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves, shall we. It is a unrealistic dream, that Turkey is going to pack and leave Cyprus, even if you begged them to leave, until they receive the "keys" to the EU, and until then, the "TRNC" will continue as is, not being able to create "levelling the playing field", while the RoC pushes ahead. If and when in 15-20 years time Turkey receives the "keys" to the EU, then they will lets us loose, to the "mercy" of the RoC. So stop this nonsense that we can't do without Turkey's protection in today's world, but the question that should be asked is, can Turkey do without the "TRNC", to get herself into the EU.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:48 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
I have read it and still feel firstly there is no need for any army presence but still feel uncomfortable with no Turkish guarantee up until Turkey enters the EU and would have to insist on this as we do not trust any mandated bodies to act swiftly in times of crisis.
Why do we need them you ask the answer is simple its all a matter of trust, which we have none of.


VP,

Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves, shall we. It is a unrealistic dream, that Turkey is going to pack and leave Cyprus, even if you begged them to leave, until they receive the "keys" to the EU, and until then, the "TRNC" will continue as is, not being able to create "levelling the playing field", while the RoC pushes ahead. If and when in 15-20 years time Turkey receives the "keys" to the EU, then they will lets us loose, to the "mercy" of the RoC. So stop this nonsense that we can't do without Turkey's protection in today's world, but the question that should be asked is, can Turkey do without the "TRNC", to get herself into the EU.


Turkey will only leave if something along the lines of AP is agreed and she has to adhere to reduction of forces on the island: The other option is for the TCs to revolt and complain to the UN and EU that they no longer want Turkey here but in order to do that TCs have to be economically independent and with the current embargoes in place there is no chance of that.

I have always argued that Turkey is comfortable knowing the GCs so well that they do not have the capabilities to entice and draw the TCs population towards themselves, they know that as long as there is no dialogue then TCs will net want to move and work with GCs rather then Turks. Really Gcs are shooting themselves in the foot, if they had the vision to encourage Tcs to work closely with them showing them that a united Cyprus with them (GCs) is a far better option then the TRNC with Turkey, that would make a unification much easier, but GCs are incapable of this and it will never happen.
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Postby Kikapu » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:36 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Turkey will only leave if something along the lines of AP is agreed and she has to adhere to reduction of forces on the island: The other option is for the TCs to revolt and complain to the UN and EU that they no longer want Turkey here but in order to do that TCs have to be economically independent and with the current embargoes in place there is no chance of that.

I have always argued that Turkey is comfortable knowing the GCs so well that they do not have the capabilities to entice and draw the TCs population towards themselves, they know that as long as there is no dialogue then TCs will net want to move and work with GCs rather then Turks. Really Gcs are shooting themselves in the foot, if they had the vision to encourage Tcs to work closely with them showing them that a united Cyprus with them (GCs) is a far better option then the TRNC with Turkey, that would make a unification much easier, but GCs are incapable of this and it will never happen.



I'm no Greek Cypriot, much to your surprise, but I do not think that the GC's will ever agree on having any Turkish Troops left on the island with a new "AP" or not. You always talk about the 1963 events, but they talk about the 1974 events, which is much more recent and many folds greater, so any reminder of Turkish Troop presence, will be deal breaker. I hope some GC's will correct me on this point, if I'm wrong.

In the meantime, I do not believe, the RoC is going to lift a finger to help us (TC's), as long as the Turkish Troops are there, so that we can reach our economic equality with them, then refuse to unify, because we will have the Turkish Army to back us up.

I really believe, the plan I posted few weeks ago, has to be something similar, where everything things start happening simultaneously from both sides, over period of 10 years or so, so that all foreign power is off the island. If we all wait for one side to give in first, then the other side takes 1-2 years to reciprocate, it will be a never ending progress.
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Postby DT. » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:41 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Turkey will only leave if something along the lines of AP is agreed and she has to adhere to reduction of forces on the island: The other option is for the TCs to revolt and complain to the UN and EU that they no longer want Turkey here but in order to do that TCs have to be economically independent and with the current embargoes in place there is no chance of that.

I have always argued that Turkey is comfortable knowing the GCs so well that they do not have the capabilities to entice and draw the TCs population towards themselves, they know that as long as there is no dialogue then TCs will net want to move and work with GCs rather then Turks. Really Gcs are shooting themselves in the foot, if they had the vision to encourage Tcs to work closely with them showing them that a united Cyprus with them (GCs) is a far better option then the TRNC with Turkey, that would make a unification much easier, but GCs are incapable of this and it will never happen.



I'm no Greek Cypriot, much to your surprise, but I do not think that the GC's will ever agree on having any Turkish Troops left on the island with a new "AP" or not. You always talk about the 1963 events, but they talk about the 1974 events, which is much more recent and many folds greater, so any reminder of Turkish Troop presence, will be deal breaker. I hope some GC's will correct me on this point, if I'm wrong.

In the meantime, I do not believe, the RoC is going to lift a finger to help us (TC's), as long as the Turkish Troops are there, so that we can reach our economic equality with them, then refuse to unify, because we will have the Turkish Army to back us up.

I really believe, the plan I posted few weeks ago, has to be something similar, where everything things start happening simultaneously from both sides, over period of 10 years or so, so that all foreign power is off the island. If we all wait for one side to give in first, then the other side takes 1-2 years to reciprocate, it will be a never ending progress.


kikapu...can you let me know where your plan is posted?

Secondly you're right in that turkish troops are a deal breaker. Not in a million years would we accept one turkish or greek troop to remain on this island.
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Postby Kikapu » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:50 pm

DT wrote:
kikapu...can you let me know where your plan is posted?

.


I'll try to find it for you DT.
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Postby Kikapu » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:22 pm

Kikapu wrote:
DT wrote:
kikapu...can you let me know where your plan is posted?

.


I'll try to find it for you DT.


DT,

Here is the plan that i proposed, that took few minutes to come up with, so needless to say, not all the details are in there, but it was meant to satisfy VP, as how to "level the playing field" economically, and at the same time, work towards a 2 state 1 country solution, with "Kifeas's plan" as the base for the functioning Federal Government. Sorry, but could not find Kifeas's plan, from last year. VP approved it at the time, so you know it was good. Here is the link. Feb 14th post.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=70
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Postby andri_cy » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:56 pm

Because it is not their country and they do not belong here?
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