Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Who said anything about not being friends all I stated was that we should take into the past and future fears eg No Turkish Troops...it works both ways...why dont you forget what they did in the past and want them to stay?

VP,

Sorry man, but I'm completely unable to make any sense of your last sentence.

[askimwos]

VP, we dont want them to stay in the same way that we don't want greek troops to stay. Don't forget that we speak about a demilitarised island. An international force with the right mandate can oversee the implementation of the solution. What is wrong with this? Why should we have foreign powers have a say on everything that te United Cyprus can and cannot do? Why the hell create a Cyprus that will be a puppet state and protectorate of Turkey, Greece and the UK? No one needs foreign patrons here. Unless, you are yourself one of them.

[Viewpoint]

askimwos

Here is VP again feeling threatened and promoting his masters taksim agenda.

Where did I do this please free yourself of a set mentality I did nothing of the sort and only aired issues that have to be taken into account for TCs to say YES again.

So I guess your problem is security? This can easily be sorted with an international UN force overseeing the implementation of the solution for say 10-15 years. This international force should be given the powers to intervene should one of the 2 parts fail to implement any part of the agreement. In order to do so they should be given the powers to intervene based on article 2 of the UN charta.

The UN are useless in moments of crisis, no same TC would be comfortable with UN protection..although the majority of TCs agree to the army leaving as long as the same happens in the south, I cannot see a way past ditching Turkish guarantees altogether...these is the only entity Tcs trust to act in times of need.
Maybe middle ground could be found and Turkey guarantees only the north state.

I do not see any state dominating one another in the Annan plan, what I see are problems with the workability and I expained how these could be solve in my previous post.
The 9-people cabinet allows both the two communities to stop something that may be seen as harming their communities. However, this can only be done if 2 of the 3 members of the TC side disagree with something and if at least 4 of the members of the GC side disagree. This is a step forward from the 1960 agreement where just the president or the vice-president could veto a decision. The 9 member cabinet can only be elected from the senate (24 GC, 24 TC) from a common ballot, i.e. one or more political parties from each community need to cooperate in order to elect the 9 member cabinet office.
I could go on and on discussing the governement structure of the Annan plan that most of GCs had no problem with as this in my opinion was balanced, and based on political equality and maybe better than the 1960's one.

However the balance is struck in numbers the essence must be that for each decision that effects one community more negatively than the other eg Aktritas, constitutional etc then a certain % has to be obtained form that community otherwise the bill will not go through and cannot be forced.

The BBF means that the issues of education, health, local policing, local justice, transport, local economy etc are devolved to the local governments with the issues of federal policing, federal justice, defence, sovereinty, national resources, national waters and aerial space and national economy being controlled by the federal government.

I agree, with the correct structure and safeguards the Federal level will be the uniting factor of the 2 states, and will be made up of both GCs and TCs.

I could go on and on writing about the fact that there is nothing that suggest forced domination of one state to the other.
As for your argument about what happened in the past and whether these can be forgotten, I guess you have to ask your own community about this - the last time I checked the TCs voted 67% for the Annan plan. I say accept the changes suggested above and I gurantee you that 90% of GC will also say yes to such a plan.

My community will only vote YES to a plan that will incorporate 2 specific areas one for TCs and one for GCs, equal political power and effective security.

I think you have to convince your community more than mine as what you suggest has not been put forward or presented as such by your ex eoka man and his cronies.

It obvious that your side cannot go back to the table as this would in effect mean that no result would cement division forever, so its a big risk and one they would rather avoid as they to can sense that the wind is not in their favor as they lost a great deal of credibility over the resounding rejection of the AP.

[Viewpoint]

Who said anything about not being friends all I stated was that we should take into the past and future fears eg No Turkish Troops...it works both ways...why dont you forget what they did in the past and want them to stay?

VP,

Sorry man, but I'm completely unable to make any sense of your last sentence.

If you are telling us to forget the past to move forward then why dont you forget what the Turkish army represent and allow them to stay...

[Viewpoint]

VP, we dont want them to stay in the same way that we don't want greek troops to stay. Don't forget that we speak about a demilitarised island. An international force with the right mandate can oversee the implementation of the solution. What is wrong with this? Why should we have foreign powers have a say on everything that te United Cyprus can and cannot do? Why the hell create a Cyprus that will be a puppet state and protectorate of Turkey, Greece and the UK? No one needs foreign patrons here. Unless, you are yourself one of them.

Do you know how we see what you are saying, expose yourselves to us without a Turkish safety net allow the UN to turn a blind eye so that we may do what we want. Why are you so strongly against their guarantees are you planning to some something else and you want free range, well sorry this does instill me with a great of confidence or trust in your motives. If you are not going to create a situation where actions will necessary then what are you afraid of?

[Kikapu]

Who said anything about not being friends all I stated was that we should take into the past and future fears eg No Turkish Troops...it works both ways...why dont you forget what they did in the past and want them to stay?

VP,

Sorry man, but I'm completely unable to make any sense of your last sentence.

If you are telling us to forget the past to move forward then why dont you forget what the Turkish army represent and allow them to stay...

Turkish Troops are not Cypriots, so no need for them to remain on the island.

I've suggested that, as the Turkish Troops pulled out in stages, that the TC's can be trained to replace them, about 10,000.

It was your idea to get rid of all armies.

But now, you're feeling insecure again, by not having the Turkish Army, baby sitting us.

What's that all about.?

[askimwos]

No Vp the GCs have no hidden agenda and are not planning anything. As I said we want Cypriots to be masters in their own land. Do you know any other country in the world where foreign nations have the right to intervene as they please. All they need to find is an excuse. A couple of bombs by a few spies or a mad man, may be interpreted as a thread to the new contribution by any of the 3 guarantor powers.

Sorry, I don't trust neither Turkey, nor Greece or UK on this - we have seen it in the past - both TMT and EOKA b were created and controlled by Turkey and Greece. Not to mention that the UK is not a country to be trusted either, as in the case of them feeling threatened for the status of their bases they will not hesitate to create something similar (divide and rule).

[free_cyprus]

get rid of everything turkish and greek from the island including diplomats, flags, troops,the whole lot close down any radio sation and news paper that promotes anything to to with turkey and greece as mother lands. cypriots can live together no problem get rid of all this crap about minority and mejority it divides the island............ one law for all cypriots every person shall have the same right to vote to run for parliment ect ect........................ get rid of cypriot army all together we should be a nutural island................. if we want to live in harmony and peace let us be an example to the whole world by gaining our freedom as cypriots for the first time total independence on cypriots term not turkeys or greece or britains terms................feck put me in charge i show you all how its all done.................lol but they might kill me for being to visionary lol

[free_cyprus]

GAVCARoCOM
i didnt know annan spoke greek and read and wrote greek did he draw the map waw ............................you could have just put amap there with two languages trukish speaking and greek speaking. little things mean alot to people when you devide them. damn you should cunsult me in these matters i can give you some free advice lol

[Viewpoint]

Who said anything about not being friends all I stated was that we should take into the past and future fears eg No Turkish Troops...it works both ways...why dont you forget what they did in the past and want them to stay?

VP,

Sorry man, but I'm completely unable to make any sense of your last sentence.

If you are telling us to forget the past to move forward then why dont you forget what the Turkish army represent and allow them to stay...

Turkish Troops are not Cypriots, so no need for them to remain on the island.

I've suggested that, as the Turkish Troops pulled out in stages, that the TC's can be trained to replace them, about 10,000.

It was your idea to get rid of all armies.

But now, you're feeling insecure again, by not having the Turkish Army, baby sitting us.

What's that all about.?

Simple and pure mistrust...it will take a while and many positive moves for me to get over this.

But you are correct about me wanting no army its only that askimwos asked for UN troops to replace current armies.

My main concern is more Turkeys guarantees than physical army presence as these serve as a deterrent, this guarantee could be only until Turkey enter the EU.