Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

It is simple ! The International community , all of it , concur with the RoC interpretation of the state of affairs in the North of Cyprus , occupied by a foreign power . Mr Talat wants direct trade since this has been and still is the agenda of his masters . The partition of Cyprus .There is absolutely NO TANGIBLE benefits for direct flights other than RECOGNITION. Turkey would rather see their protegees starve , but the ultimate goal for her is partition. It is no surprise that Mr Talat refuses to trade via the legal ports of entry. Until such time that we have an overall change of our concept of what the nation of Cyprus is , there will be division and real prospects of conflict.Our leaders ought to concentrate on re educating our people that just as 2 + 2 = 4 , T/C +G/C = CYPRIOT .
Only a complete recovery from the incessant manipulation suffered by our people over the years will bring permanent peace and unification of our island. There are realities that have to be addressed from both the T/Cs and G/Cs , one of the realities is that over the next 50 years , a very short span in a nations history , the growth of the "other Cypriot " population will perhaps reach the levels of 18 - 20% of the population. We cant divide further our little island to accommodate other Cypriots wanting their own independent state. It is time to kick the old habits away and bring in the Cypriot identity , as indeed in the UK where all are British (except the bastards who hate us and want to blow us up ).

[Viewpoint]

If we are going to agree a BBF type solution then I dont see the problem here, unless the GCs have hidden agendas!!! they should not see it as recognition but a sharing excercise, you have an airport we have an airport, GCs adminiister one airport, TCs administer another, isnt this only natural or do you want to control all all the airports?

[tessintrnc]

Wasnt there a ban on TRNC potatoes crossing the border? Something to do with not being certified by the EU - which means theres a catch 22 situation isnt there? Roc says YES to allowing the points of entry in the South to be used, BUT they then put restrictions in place that make it impossible. And the drogotary remarks by Papad that THEY dont have anything to export anyway - hardly encourages anyone does it? And Miltiades, no-one is starving here, hungry for more tourists perhaps - but as has been said, Ercan is still open and always will be.
Tess

[askimwos]

If we are going to agree a BBF type solution then I dont see the problem here, unless the GCs have hidden agendas!!! they should not see it as recognition but a sharing excercise, you have an airport we have an airport, GCs adminiister one airport, TCs administer another, isnt this only natural or do you want to control all all the airports?

VP, please stop thinking that people are stupid and will be convince by such a childish argument. We said it many many times before, the RoC says yes to the economic development of TC but by no means it would allow the recognition of the "trnc" be it directly or indirectly. It is common logic and should have been clear to you. TCs complain about the "isolation" they are under, I won't resort to the argument that this is a selfimposed isolation and that they have only Turkey to blame about this, rather I would say this:

Let the RoC employ people from the TC Commerce Chamber in the ports and airports of the RoC that will oversee/handle the TC exports imports so that there is no fear that the products will be left to rot as some TC claim. Have in mind that TC Chamber of Commerce is recognised by the RoC as this existed prior to 1974.

This way both sides will be happy, well...maybe not as the Tc administration's agenda is not the ending of the so called isolation but rather the recognistion of trnc! Now who is the one being honest here, the RoC or the TC administration?

[Kikapu]

If we are going to agree a BBF type solution then I dont see the problem here, unless the GCs have hidden agendas!!! they should not see it as recognition but a sharing excercise, you have an airport we have an airport, GCs adminiister one airport, TCs administer another, isnt this only natural or do you want to control all all the airports?

VP,

Nothing will make sense to you, if you do not understand the very basic rules of "Sovereign State" and a "de facto State".

Once you can understand these differences, then everything else will start making sense to you. So stop questioning the "obvious" as to why things are not done to your liking, and start accepting, why things are done, the way they are.

Would we not do the same, if the shoe was on the other foot.

[humanist]

[miltiades wrote:]re educating our people that just as 2 + 2 = 4 , T/C +G/C = CYPRIOT .
Only a complete recovery from the incessant manipulation suffered by our people over the years will bring permanent peace and unification of our island. There are realities that have to be addressed from both the T/Cs and G/Cs , one of the realities is that over the next 50 years , a very short span in a nations history , the growth of the "other Cypriot " population will perhaps reach the levels of 18 - 20% of the population. We cant divide further our little island to accommodate other Cypriots wanting their own independent state. It is time to kick the old habits away and bring in the Cypriot identity , as indeed in the UK where all are British (except the bastards who hate us and want to blow us up ).[/quote]


Meltiades thank you for your inspirational post. I couldn't agree with you more/

[miltiades]

If we are going to agree a BBF type solution then I dont see the problem here, unless the GCs have hidden agendas!!! they should not see it as recognition but a sharing excercise, you have an airport we have an airport, GCs adminiister one airport, TCs administer another, isnt this only natural or do you want to control all all the airports?

The massive difference here is that the RoC does not "enjoy" your "sharing experience" by having 40 thousand foreign troops on it's soil , neither does it take its cue from a Foreign nation. It is an independent nation with absolute sovereignty over all of it's land .The "trnc" is under the direct control of Turkey , the T/Cs are slowly but systematically being stripped of their Cypriot identity and dragged into the arms of Turkey. Recognition of direct trade and flights contravenes the international legalities enshrined in the Western world's democratic agendas. Let me just say at this stage I do not want to be misunderstood as one who wishes to inflict hardship or constrains on my Cypriot , T/C compatriots. It is my total and unquestionable dedication to one Cyprus for all Cypriots where majorities and minorities play an insignificant part and the pronounced ethos is the Cypriot identity where no boundaries exist in our land and all of our people enjoy EQUAL rights and benefit entitlements .

[zan]

Look; let’s not be naive here. The ports issue is one of recognition in the first place. If the RoC gives permission to the TCs to operate ports then they must also recognise the paperwork issued. If the TCs except the paperwork from the RoC, then that is recognition of the RoC and a snub for Turkey. Neither can be agreed and therefore must be fought for politically. This and some other problems like the property issue can only really be solved with a solution in general. The only other way that the TRNC can go about this is to bypass the process and go direct to the other countries involved and ask for recognition that way or we try to get a fairer deal by using the Turkey route. Any way we chose to go will be a fight and we will fight it, unless a fair deal can be brought by the RoC. The self-imposed argument is a very weak one because it implies that there is an alternative. There is not.

[humanist]

Zan, very good post and a strong argument.

Feebs my friend total feebs, the current economic isolation experenced by cypriots living in the north is self imposed. there is an alternative, move to the south with the expectation and the right by the authorities of the RoC and there is an alternative.

There is also another alternative in building partnerhips and that is one Cypriot Chambers of commerce on people one trade. Another way of building partnerships with the RoC is that it encourages bisuness people to relocate their business to the RoC with tax incentives for seven years to assist them to achieve a business level equal to that of other EU countires. These steps will be guaranteed to building trust, knowledge and support for a united cyprus. on a people level the RoC can take immediate steps to financially support renovation of all properties of those cypriots who moved from the south to the north in 74 and assist those who wish to return back to the RoC to share the economic developmnent of this nation. the RoC is currently employing people from the north, yet another way to build trust and partneship.

[askimwos]

Look; let’s not be naive here. The ports issue is one of recognition in the first place. If the RoC gives permission to the TCs to operate ports then they must also recognise the paperwork issued. If the TCs except the paperwork from the RoC, then that is recognition of the RoC and a snub for Turkey. Neither can be agreed and therefore must be fought for politically. This and some other problems like the property issue can only really be solved with a solution in general. The only other way that the TRNC can go about this is to bypass the process and go direct to the other countries involved and ask for recognition that way or we try to get a fairer deal by using the Turkey route. Any way we chose to go will be a fight and we will fight it, unless a fair deal can be brought by the RoC. The self-imposed argument is a very weak one because it implies that there is an alternative. There is not.

At least a TC compatrion in this forum admitting things in the way they are! Now that we have a common point to start from here is my analysis of the situation:
The RoC is recognised by all countries in the world apart from Turkey which, sooner or later will have to re-recognise the RoC in order to get into Europe. Turkey is following their own agenda and the TCs will be screwed by their "motherland" as the GC have been screwed by their "motherland" several times in the past. We live in a capitalistic world and at the end of the day the turkish economic elite will force Turkey to screw the Tcs in order to rip the benefits of EU. However, by that time there won't be any TC people on the island.

It is unfortunate that CTP have chosen to allign themselves with Turkey, they used to be a proud party that at times have fought against the occupation and were not afraid to call it this way.
I am afraid to say that the only key to the solution is in Ankara. However, this will only become available in many years from now by which time it will be too late for both TCs and GCs. A solution would have been perfectly feasible if the TCs stood up and said let Turkey, Greece and UK out of the equation and let us find a solution with the GCs. Believe me there would have been more consessions by GCs if the treaty of guarantee was avoided in any new plan and the guarantor powers were excluded. At the same time the international community would have no option but to accept the ANY solution drafted solely by GCs and TCs. But I guess this is wishful thinking as the TC administration is tied to Turkey and the times that people were brave enough to stand up and face Turkey in the eyes has gone.