Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Maybe what you refer to are things like "affirmative action" which has as an aim to correct discrimination for groups that are under-represented. This has nothing to do with what Turkish Cypriots are asking for. If it did I would have no problem to accept it.

What the TCs are asking for is a clear racial discrimination that exists in no other EU country. As I said before, I am more than willing to accept what they have in any other EU country, because in no other EU country such undemocratic and racist provisions exist.

[erolz]

The way I understand it is that the TC's seek permanent derogations. Am I mistaken?

There are a range of views on the TC side on this issue. From having no geogra

the two communites at all (but political seperation), through to having a period of such and too permanent restrictions.

The point about Turkey's accession (the process of which has now 'started') is that it shows that the EU does not consider the idea of such permanent degrogations as being beyond consideration (though it does remain to be seen if the EU courts would accept such).

If Cyprus was not the country of the GC's as well, then perhaps this point could be considered as a valid one. But the GC's are from all over Cyprus and they have always lived throughout the island until they were evicted by force 30 years ago. For this reason I think that to limit their right to live, work, settle etc (i.e. their right to exist) over 1/3 of their island is totally racist, especially when the sole criterion for doing so is their ethnic background.

The sole reason for wanting some seperation for one group (TC) from another group (GC) for some period of time is because we have (good) historical reason to fear the other group. Yes the 'criterion' is based on race - because the fear is based on race. I personaly do not think that it is racist to want some limits on free movement of Cypriots in Cyprus post a settlement. If TC were to say we want protected seperation (for a periosd / until we feel safe) from GC because we think that all they know how to do as a race is kill, steal and rape then that would be racist. If we said we want protected seperation (for a period / until we feel safe) beacuse GC are dirty and smell bad and uneducated then that would be racist imo. We are not saying these things. We are saying we have historical reasons to fear being a numerical minority amongst a GC majority and any settlement should take account of these fears. That to me is not racist. It certainly is not racist in the way saying the only thing that a particular race knows how to do is kill, rape and steal. Would you agree with that? Or do you think that wanting some form of protected seperation for TC Cypriots (for a period or until we decide they are no longer necessary) is racist in the same way that the statement above is racist?

[MicAtCyp]

This is just not born out by the evidence on these forum MicAtCyp. There are things that TC have and do 'disagree' (hold different opinions on) about. I could post countless examples of this. Would you like me to do so or will you accept that your assertion that we never openly disagree with each onther on this forum is just not correct?

Erol, quite honestly this is my impression, and a sad one may I say. If it will not be much trouble for you, please do point me some examples where a momentary disagreement between TCs continued. It will really be a releif for me to learn that I am wrong.

************************************************

Mehmet,

I understand your points.I beleive however that without provocation everybody in the forum will soon fall asleep, and the forum be dead in no time. The more the "kavga" the more people are attracted to join, the more we press each other to tell their true deepest thoughts. I personally beleive the only way to respect the other community is to understand it as deeply as possible. Reconcilliation then comes as a personal feeling, to person undergone that process.

So unless we have this type of "bad" discussions, we cannot have by their side the civilised and documented debates, that are actually the most useful ones.

In this respect I think you can agree with me that Piratis really boosts the hell this forum. I personally admire him for that.
If Kelebek does the same, then good, no problem for me.
I am very glad by the way the number of TC participants seems to be more than the GCs now!

******************************
About this talk about racism:

I don't understand why you accuse each other of racism. We are all racists!

Racism is a human feeling and exists in each and everyone one of us. You can suppress it by rationality and education. But you can never extinguish it. What civilised nations do is just set the rules so that racism does not harm other people. Even this Federal solution we are trying to find (some want partition) is because we are all racists.

Even if after a solution we re-discover we are not so different, do you have any doubt that we will express all our racism on the settlers who will stay, and the Pontians if they also stay?

[erolz]

Erol, quite honestly this is my impression, and a sad one may I say. If it will not be much trouble for you, please do point me some examples where a momentary disagreement between TCs continued. It will really be a releif for me to learn that I am wrong.

Well just for starters I diagree with Insan about the need for some settlers to be sent back from Cyprus. I have disagreed with memhet about the value of making North Cyprus the 'amsterdam' of the med. There are continued differences of TC opinion as to if permanent agreed division is better than an acceptable federal solution. There are many areas in which different TC disagree and do so openly on this forum, just as there are with GC posters as well as many areas in which TC do agree, just as there are with GC posters. I personaly do not see any differnence between the two groups of posters in this regard.

I don't understand why you accuse each other of racism. We are all racists!

Racism is a human feeling and exists in each and everyone one of us. You can suppress it by rationality and education. But you can never extinguish it. What civilised nations do is just set the rules so that racism does not harm other people. Even this Federal solution we are trying to find (some want partition) is because we are all racists.

Even if after a solution we re-discover we are not so different, do you have any doubt that we will express all our racism on the settlers who will stay, and the Pontians if they also stay?

You may not be able to ever extinguish it but do you not think blatant racist remarks should be challeneged as such? I challenge racism against the settlers (or the pontians or anyone else) because I think it is right to do so and to not do so is wrong.

[insan]

People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So we’re different colours
And we’re different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
It’s obvious you hate me
Though I’ve done nothing wrong
I’ve never even met you
So what could I have done
I can’t understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
Help me understand
Help me understand

Now you’re punching
And you’re kicking
And you’re shouting at me
And I’m relying on your common decency
So far it hasn’t surfaced
But I’m sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I can’t understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

I can’t understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand




Q: What's the difference of a Greek, a Turkish and a Cypriot fascist?

[insan]

There’s a new game
We like to play you see
A game with added reality
You treat me like a dog
Get me down on my knees

We call it master and servant
We call it master and servant

It’s a lot like life
This play between the sheets
With you on top and me underneath
Forget all about equality

Let’s play master and servant
Let’s play master and servant

It’s a lot like life
And that’s what’s appealing
If you despise that throwaway feeling
From disposable fun
Then this is the one

Domination’s the name of the game
In bed or in life
They’re both just the same
Except in one you’re fulfilled
At the end of the day

Let’s play master and servant



Q: What's the name of the gane if you are on top and me underneath?

[insan]

You had something to hide
Should have hidden it, shouldn’t you
Now you’re not satisfied
With what you’re being put through

It’s just time to pay the price
For not listening to advice
And deciding in your youth
On the policy of truth

Things could be so different now
It used to be so civilised
You will always wonder how
It could have been if you’d only lied

It’s too late to change events
It’s time to face the consequence
For delivering the proof
In the policy of truth

Never again
Is what you swore
The time before
Never again
Is what you swore
The time before

Now you’re standing there tongue tied
You’d better learn your lesson well
Hide what you have to hide
And tell what you have to tell

You’ll see your problems multiplied
If you continually decide
To faithfully pursue
The policy of truth

Never again
Is what you swore
The time before
Never again
Is what you swore
The time before



Q: Do you believe that "honesty is the best policy" or you don't?

[insan]

Condemnation
Tried
Here on the stand
With the book in my hand
And truth on my side

Accusations
Lies
Hand me my sentence
I’ll show no repentance
I’ll suffer with pride

If for honesty
You want apologies
I don’t sympathize
If for kindness
You substitute blindness
Please open your eyes

Condemnation
Why
Because my duty
Was always to beauty
And that was my crime

Feel elation
High
To know I can trust this
Fix of injustice
Time after time

If you see purity
As immaturity
Well it’s no surprise
If for kindness
You substitute blindness
Please open your eyes



No questions.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Maybe what you refer to are things like "affirmative action" which has as an aim to correct discrimination for groups that are under-represented. This has nothing to do with what Turkish Cypriots are asking for. If it did I would have no problem to accept it.

What the TCs are asking for is a clear racial discrimination that exists in no other EU country. As I said before, I am more than willing to accept what they have in any other EU country, because in no other EU country such undemocratic and racist provisions exist.

OK Piratis, so maybe I am wrong and maybe I do not have my legal definitions and precedents right ...

For me, however, this is not very important. The essence of finding a solution, imho, is not to "do something that is done elsewhere", or "something that has legal precedent", but to do something that is applicable to the case of Cyprus and which actually solves the problem ...

[Alexandros Lordos]

Racism is a human feeling and exists in each and everyone one of us. You can suppress it by rationality and education. But you can never extinguish it. What civilised nations do is just set the rules so that racism does not harm other people. Even this Federal solution we are trying to find (some want partition) is because we are all racists.

I think MicAtCyp has cut the "gordian knot" quite nicely ...