Cyprus-Forum.com

[Saint Jimmy]

the US and great britains credibility is not the rosiest right know around the world either,as for annan he should worry for about the oil for food scandal with Iraq and leave the ROC alone,his credibility is not the greatest either,as for turkey that will take to long to write.

Dude,
Why should we give a rat's ass about their credibility? What's it got to do with us or our problem? Besides, who should they be credible to? They rule the goddamn world and there's no one to judge them! It's a bit different for us, though...

the eu summit they were demanding that erdogan sign the protocol there,if he had done that there would have been a army welcoming party once he arrived back in ankara.

OK, agreed... Still, that's not really my point: I'm saying that we would have had a louder voice, if we were thought to be a small country with valid demands. Erdogan's problems are not the EU's problems, are they? If the EU wanted to force Turkey into accepting something (say, ummm, open-ended negotiations...???), they would have got it, giving something else up. If we were pre-referendum RoC, the 'something' would not have been Cyprus. That's what I think.

[Piratis]

All versions of Annan plan were bad. After negotiating the plan for years, it would be an illusion to believe that Cleredes would have suddenly transformed it into something acceptable, especially when you consider the clear majority with which the plan was rejected.

[boulio]

If the EU wanted to force Turkey into accepting something (say, ummm, open-ended negotiations...???), they would have got it, giving something else up. If we were pre-referendum RoC, the 'something' would not have been Cyprus. That's what I think.

dude the eu is about comprimese on all levels,the opened ended negotiotions was a red-line for austria and france,when it comes to cyprus the eu will have to tackle the subject head on sooner or later.

and if you think that the ROC has lost its credibility then what happened in istanbul pre-summit/post -referandum on dec.5 with the oic-eu meeting,when turkey and the t/c were trying to push the eu and cyprus into a corner on how the t/c would be represented,the EU said represent them as a community,turkey thought it was a bluff and that the eu would not jepordize such a important summit(with all the stuff going on in iraq)OVER TINY CYPRUS,and guess what they were wrong,summit cancelled and EU basically told turkey and the t/c to go fuck themselves.believe it or not it is turkey that was damaged the most after the EU summit,some heads of state were actually appauled at erdogan and called him with his tactics a "carpet salesmen"

[brother]

Thats why your E.U family backed you on nothing at the DEC. 17 when turkey was given a date.

[boulio]

read the post before you run your mouth.

[brother]

I read the post and on the Dec 17 the E.U said a big fuck you to tassos demands...fact.

[boulio]

tassos demands were of recognition even de-facto not de-jure and by october 3,he will have either that or a solution.

[brother]

Solution if it happens will not be tassos want, as he like denktas is for partition, as for recognition dream on.....and then you will wake up to the harsh truth of reality.

[Saint Jimmy]

All versions of Annan plan were bad. After negotiating the plan for years, it would be an illusion to believe that Cleredes would have suddenly transformed it into something acceptable, especially when you consider the clear majority with which the plan was rejected.

I have stated before, and it is my firm belief, that Tassos's speech to the country (good or bad - not the point) was one of the factors that tilted the scale to 'No'. Supposing Clerides was in charge, a few things in the Annan plan put to the referendum would have been different (you are right, nothing too big), but at least there would have been some negotiations in Burgenstock (clearly there weren't), during which we would have gained something - simply because, we would have asked for something, instead of filibustering our way out of the process!!!

But the main difference would have been in the shaping of the public opinion. GCs are generally not legal experts; they mostly rely on what their politicians tell them. Which is what happened. Tassos is the President and we traditionally believe the President; he is our top man. If the President had said something else, instead of 'what the fuck is this?', our public opinion would have been different (not necessarily yours, though, I can tell you've read the plan and know your shit; consider the bulk of GC voters, however...?)

[Saint Jimmy]

dude the eu is about comprimese on all levels,the opened ended negotiotions was a red-line for austria and france,when it comes to cyprus the eu will have to tackle the subject head on sooner or later.

Agreed! The point would have been on how they'd tackle it... They gave us the least they could, no? It didn't look like much of a compromise to me, considering the list that our Foreign Ministry had issued (an official document listing our demands...) months before...

and if you think that the ROC has lost its credibility then what happened in istanbul pre-summit/post -referandum on dec.5 with the oic-eu meeting,when turkey and the t/c were trying to push the eu and cyprus into a corner on how the t/c would be represented,the EU said represent them as a community,turkey thought it was a bluff and that the eu would not jepordize such a important summit(with all the stuff going on in iraq)OVER TINY CYPRUS,and guess what they were wrong,summit cancelled and EU basically told turkey and the t/c to go fuck themselves."

But dude,
when did Turkey have any credibility on the Cyprus thing? They have always been blamed for everything since 74! They only started moving forward in that respect after the referendum, which is precisely the point!

believe it or not it is turkey that was damaged the most after the EU summit,some heads of state were actually appauled at erdogan and called him with his tactics a "carpet salesmen"

Yeah, I heard about that, but, correct me if I am wrong, wasn't that only the Luxemburg guy...? I think the report was that he had said that, and I didn't hear of anyone else saying it... Obviously, the government did use that quote to downplay its defeat and oversize the Turkish success... That's how I interpret it.