Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu...

The fact that VP didn't know about my post in which I tried to expand on your original question,which was not that far away from your original post, is another definite proof that there are more than One Viewpoints... Don't you think?

Drop the bullshit its getting tedious, I may have missed your post repeat it if its so import and you are losing sleep over not getting an answer.

[pitsilos]

you still haven't explain the 22 hrs

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

Thanks for your contribution VP. Actually, Birkibrisli did enhance on my original question, if you want to go back a page or two. So in essence, the whole recognition/ partition/annexation in your view, is to play with time, and time will take care of everything.
.

Birkibrisli

Kikapu,
Can you clarify your question a little bit,so you don't get answers like Observer's. Correct me if I am wrong but, you are asking how will Turkey make the Partition or Annexation recognised by the World( UN/EU/USA etc),is that right?

If the above is Birs more to the point question then what I have to say on annexation first. If the pressure is applied to Turkey and she feels corned by the antics of the "RoC" via the EU, then we all know Turkey is very very unpredictable in a moment of desperation and in order to bring this problem to a close she can claim annexation, which from what you guys believe we have already but making this official will really depend on how far the "RoC" plus other factors push Turkey into a corner. It is also my personal opinion that Turkey is no rush to get into the EU, all shes wants is the EU perspective and minute steps towards union but this will keep foreign investment bubbling and flowing into Turkey.
Again recognition is not a top priority as I said before the GCs are their own worst enemy as both sides continue to play cat and mouse about sitting down and genuinely hammering things out time will erode any need for a solution, (the GC youth are a great example of this) to help stimulate this indirectly and over many years a relaxing of the isolation on the north has to take place as this does not bode well with the EU philosophy and don't forget the EU made a major cock up with bring in a divided and politically problematic country into the fold. They have mandated and gone on record committing themselves to solving certain matters such as direct trade. As everyone aware a comprehensive solution can only be found via the UN the EU can only take decisions keep their promises and encourage both sides to move in the UN arena. My opinion on the EU arena is the the south will ferociously avoid negotiations as they cannot afford another rejection this would bring partition even sooner and seeing that they are not genuine in what they say about a BBF the current situation will continue until a time when the GCs feel they are losing their grip and things are going against them or when Turkey is squeezed into a corner but imo the GCs should avoid this at all costs as the result due to Turkeys unpredictability may turn out unreversable negative for the south.

So lets suppose it will take another 33 years to get recognition (not sure by whom exactly), and with economic embargoes lasting as long, what kind of place the "TRNC" will be I wonder, in comparison to the RoC, and what will that do to the "level playing field" to get the 2 sides together, even in a 2 state 1 country solution.

You make a big mistake of always comparing us to the south admittidly we are behind them economically but we are on a par and even ahead of other countries in the EU. Switzerland is ahead of the south, does this stop the south from striving to moving forward, should they all give up and just because the Swiss are more advanced, it just doesn't work that way. The level playing field which in essence is vital if we are to build trust and understand is very important and should not be brushed to one side because I may have stated before is TCs and not encouraged to work with GCs and agree a level playing field and have to fight for every little thing due to GC objections then the GCs are my enemy and why should I want to unite with them?

What would be a positive move from the south would be a them to agree to direct flights from say 1 country like the UK, help us work with us even attend the first landing, can you imagine the positive impact this would have on the TCs of the north. This would also help the TCs move away from Turkey and closer tot he south. But in order to take such a step you have to have vision and desire obviously these factors are missing in the leadership of the south.

Further more, don't you think, that if all possibilities of a unified Cyprus came to an end, that there will be some "militant" actions against the "TRNC". The reason why I mention that, is because of Israel and Palestine situation. As powerful as Israel is Militarily, I think the citizens of Israel, are always on their toes.

This is always a possibility but the Gcs have again shot themselves int he foot with the EU dynamic they cannot scratch their arses without asking the EU how will they wage a war? this goes against the EU philosophy and any insane skirmish would be quickly quashed either by the EU or the Turkish Army who not sit by idly and wait for the unfolding of such events.

You know my stance, which is 2 states 1 country, so I hope we can achieve that, before anything else bad happens.

Nothing bad will happen not in my life time or yours we will have more of the same lots of talk. If the Gcs continue to play the same game then the TCs are left with no alternative to try and improve their economic status and this is done by stronger economic ties with the outside word, the Islamic nations have declared us a state, the EU is trying to keep it promises, planes have started to fly direct and time is passing which erodes the desire for unification.

Imho the ball is firmly in the GC court as they are the recognized part of the island and only be working with TCs can they move towards a BBF solution but everyone should ask themselves do the GCs really want this? and what have they done to achieve it?

[observer]

So it seems that we are really talking about diplomatic recognition of TRNC.

Quite frankly, what does that matter? I can see no real benefit in having an extra bunch of diplomats cluttering up Lefkosa, nor paying for an additional bunch of TCs to play at diplomats abroad.

Now economic recognition is a different matter, and time is making it happen. In the last half dozen years foreign investment in TRNC has gone from nothing to a steady trickle which will increase if nothing changes - money knows no nationalities. It's not just the building boom, it's the goods in the shops (once virtually all Turkish) and the brand names over shop windows. The world's brand names are here, and RoC can't threaten Coca Cola, Ford, Nokia etc.

[Pyrpolizer]

Buying the products others sell you is a joy for THEM, and emptying pockets for YOU.
Selling land that does not belong to you for peanuts, is the easiest thing in the world.

Is this the economic recognition you are talking about observer?

How long do you think it will last?

[observer]

But it's not just selling land, as I indicated by mentioning the building boom, though that helps.

Just like RoC, TRNC earns money from tourism, and numbers on this side are going up, including a lot of 'day tourists' who are counted as RoC tourists but come over for the day. GCs too - especially those who come through at 11 o'clock at night. More foreigners settling (and I don't mean Turks) bringing their pensions with them. And many TCs working in the South. Also, I suspect that quite a lot of items bought in the North are finding their way into the South, customs checks or not (think tobacco). The profit stays in the North of course.

All of these activities create jobs in the North and allow people to spend on imported and local goods, and of course the manufacturing of local goods makes work for more locals.

I would never pretend that the standard of living in the North is as high as the South, years of RoC blocking have ensured that. But now that a crack has opened following the opening of the gates and the small relaxations resulting from RoC joining the EU, all the statistics that I read tell me that the gap is closing.

[Kikapu]

The world's brand names are here, and RoC can't threaten Coca Cola, Ford, Nokia etc.

@ Observer,

I'm sure you can get anything in the "TRNC" as anyone else, but is that not because almost all foreign brands have to go through Turkey first. So, in another words, anything sold in the "TRNC" is basically "second hand", and perhaps even more expensive than, the same items bought in Turkey, because of the "middle men", and I did mean "men" as in plural.

So, who are buying these products. Is it purely for tourist and foreign pensioners, or can the locals also afford to buy them.?

VP said he "may be rich", so perhaps he has no problems affording them, but how about the less unfortunate.

I'm just asking.

[observer]

Were I a shopkeeper I might be able to give you a fuller answer. I can only give you the evidence of my eyes, which is that TCs are now driving round in smarter cars than they were a few years ago, wearing smarter clothes, and buying bigger houses.

I think economists call this the trickle down theory. In other words, if there is more money about, everyone gets a little bit richer, some not so much as others true, but everyone with a stake in the economy benefits.

[askimwos]

But it's not just selling land, as I indicated by mentioning the building boom, though that helps.

Just like RoC, TRNC earns money from tourism, and numbers on this side are going up, including a lot of 'day tourists' who are counted as RoC tourists but come over for the day. GCs too - especially those who come through at 11 o'clock at night. More foreigners settling (and I don't mean Turks) bringing their pensions with them. And many TCs working in the South. Also, I suspect that quite a lot of items bought in the North are finding their way into the South, customs checks or not (think tobacco). The profit stays in the North of course.

All of these activities create jobs in the North and allow people to spend on imported and local goods, and of course the manufacturing of local goods makes work for more locals.

I would never pretend that the standard of living in the North is as high as the South, years of RoC blocking have ensured that. But now that a crack has opened following the opening of the gates and the small relaxations resulting from RoC joining the EU, all the statistics that I read tell me that the gap is closing.

Observer, all the factors you have mentioned, apart from selling land for cheap are a reality thanks to the RoC which some TCs are too quick to blame for the economic situation in the north. It is thanks to GCs that the economy in the north is expanding at the moment and this is natural, as the RoC has long declared that is prepared to help the TCs get out of the economic deadlock utilising any way that is possible without recognising the regime in the north. GCs visit the north in their thousands everyday, thousands of TCs work in the south, there are no obstacles put on foregn tourists that want to visit the north through the legal ports and there is the greenline trade agreement that still needs to expand.
It is time that TCs understand that it is not the RoC that hinders the economic development in the north but the occupation. TCs have been invided to export/import goods from the legal ports and airports but the regime in the north makes this very difficult for them. TCs also opposed to opening and comanaging the famagusta port in return to giving back the closed area of famagusta that is roting without any reason. I would go a step further and suggest to open and comanage the nicosia international airpot as well so the "no airport in the deal" argument by some TCs is forgotten. But I guess there will still be a no answer from the regime in the north as their only objective is the recognition of the trnc and not the lifting of the so called economic isolation.

[miltiades]

VP WROTE:
""""What would be a positive move from the south would be a them to agree to direct flights from say 1 country like the UK, help us work with us even attend the first landing, can you imagine the positive impact this would have on the TCs of the north. This would also help the TCs move away from Turkey and closer tot he south. But in order to take such a step you have to have vision and desire obviously these factors are missing in the leadership of the south. """""

Dont go pretending that you are in the majority, No Sir , you represent the Taksim ideology an ideology that the majority of Cypriots reject. The likes of Kikapu , Cyperzokyli , Birkibrisly , Kartal_aetos , Humanist, Natty ,Pashias and also the numerous other Cypriots including myself , are the majority, the TRUE CYPRIOTS who are proud of their birth country and want it to retain its identity not have it bastardised by The mainland , anathema to Cyprus , so called "motherlands "

There is no limit to this propagandist's demands. So the legal government of Cyprus , which is not the south but the Internationally recognised ROC , which has no control over the foreign occupied part of Cyprus , must succumb to the laughably preposterous demand that not only does it recognise the legality of 40 thousand occupying troops on its land but also must pay homage to the first Landing of an international aircraft violating its airspace.
Well dream Partitionist it wont happen, Cyprus is one nation and one nation only , that is the nation of the Cypriots not the nation of foreigners with " motherland " aspirations. Our motherland is our nation , our Cyprus , the one that belongs to all Cypriots .