Cyprus-Forum.com

[askimwos]

Observer, since you say that you have only a layman's knowledge on how the credit card tranfer system works then why do you choose to jump to the conclusion that the RoC is spying on its citizens?

Now as far as the exporting thing is concerned I think, and correct me if wrong, in the past there has been a proposal to create a certain committee that would include TC from the TC Commerce Chamber that would be employeed at Larnacas port in order to assist the TCs to export their products and was rejected by the TC side.

The whole point about direct trade as you call it is just a smoke screen in order to score points on the recognition of trnc front. Turkey and the north regime have never hidden that they want to create a Taiwan style entity as a first step to achieve recognition of a seperate state. This is a quite different agenda than economic development and TC people seem to have aligned themeselves with this objective. What is the point of rejecting any measure that is designed to help boost the economy of the north just because it won't offer any sort of recognistion and at the same time moaning that the economy is in this state because of the isolation?

[Kikapu]

The whole point about direct trade as you call it is just a smoke screen in order to score points on the recognition of trnc front. Turkey and the north regime have never hidden that they want to create a Taiwan style entity as a first step to achieve recognition a seperate state.

I hope everyone realises, that one day, and not too long away, Taiwan will be under the control of China, just as Hong Kong did, after 150 years, controlled by the British. It will be allowed to trade as independent, but China will benefit the "fruits of Taiwan's labour".

Is this what will happen to the "TRNC" at some point, if it becomes recognised as what Taiwan did.??

Why not build our own state withing our country of Cyprus, on a 2 states 1 country solution now.??

[DT.]

The whole point about direct trade as you call it is just a smoke screen in order to score points on the recognition of trnc front. Turkey and the north regime have never hidden that they want to create a Taiwan style entity as a first step to achieve recognition a seperate state.

I hope everyone realises, that one day, and not too long away, Taiwan will be under the control of China, just as Hong Kong did, after 150 years, controlled by the British. It will be allowed to trade as independent, but China will benefit the "fruits of Taiwan's labour".

Is this what will happen to the "TRNC" at some point, if it becomes recognised as what Taiwan did.??

Why not build our own state withing our country of Cyprus, on a 2 states 1 country solution now.??

because VP would be out of a job then?

[observer]

askimwos asks:

Observer, since you say that you have only a layman's knowledge on how the credit card tranfer system works then why do you choose to jump to the conclusion that the RoC is spying on its citizens?

Because the original article said:

The Committee chairman went on to point out that according to the Central Bank’s observation of credit card transactions, around £40 million has been spent in casinos in the north since the opening of the checkpoints.

Whose credit card transactions? RoC citizen's credit card transactions.
Do they know this from Turkish bank accounts? Unlikely.
Do they know this from examining GC credit card accounts? Most likely explanation.

Also in the same article:

the Justice Minister said his ministry had received legal advice from the Attorney-general indicating that it was very difficult to prove someone is guilty by accessing their credit card transactions.

.... not that it was difficult to get them.

Even if records had not been accessed (and it's pretty difficult to see how the total spent in casinos could have been discovered without accessing GCs records) it certainly acts as a cautionary tale for any GC considering taking out his credit card in the North.

[observer]

Kikapu wrote:

I hope everyone realises, that one day, and not too long away, Taiwan will be under the control of China, just as Hong Kong did, after 150 years, controlled by the British. It will be allowed to trade as independent, but China will benefit the "fruits of Taiwan's labour".

Fundemental misunderstanding here.

The British had a 150 year lease on Hong Kong and handed it back to China when the lease ran out (and probably because it was politically the sensible thing to do).

I don't know who this "everyone" is who you expect to realise that not too long away Taiwan will be under the control of China. Not millions of Taiwanese, nor is there any political will anywhere in the world that will force them to do it. Status quo has been reached after 60 years where no movement is the best solution.

A long way back in this thread I indicated that that I thought this would happen with Cyprus if left too long.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu wrote:

I hope everyone realises, that one day, and not too long away, Taiwan will be under the control of China, just as Hong Kong did, after 150 years, controlled by the British. It will be allowed to trade as independent, but China will benefit the "fruits of Taiwan's labour".

Fundemental misunderstanding here.

The British had a 150 year lease on Hong Kong and handed it back to China when the lease ran out (and probably because it was politically the sensible thing to do).

I don't know who this "everyone" is who you expect to realise that not too long away Taiwan will be under the control of China. Not millions of Taiwanese, nor is there any political will anywhere in the world that will force them to do it. Status quo has been reached after 60 years where no movement is the best solution.

A long way back in this thread I indicated that that I thought this would happen with Cyprus if left too long.

A complete Fundamental Misunderstanding.

I was not saying that the Taiwanese will go willingly.

More like a "carrot and a stick" approach from China.

Actually, it will be a very very BIG stick and a small carrot.

[askimwos]

askimwos asks:

Observer, since you say that you have only a layman's knowledge on how the credit card tranfer system works then why do you choose to jump to the conclusion that the RoC is spying on its citizens?

Because the original article said:

The Committee chairman went on to point out that according to the Central Bank’s observation of credit card transactions, around £40 million has been spent in casinos in the north since the opening of the checkpoints.

Whose credit card transactions? RoC citizen's credit card transactions.
Do they know this from Turkish bank accounts? Unlikely.
Do they know this from examining GC credit card accounts? Most likely explanation.

Also in the same article:

the Justice Minister said his ministry had received legal advice from the Attorney-general indicating that it was very difficult to prove someone is guilty by accessing their credit card transactions.

.... not that it was difficult to get them.

Even if records had not been accessed (and it's pretty difficult to see how the total spent in casinos could have been discovered without accessing GCs records) it certainly acts as a cautionary tale for any GC considering taking out his credit card in the North.

Observer, because I happened to have worked in the financial sector in the past and because one of the bits that I used to do was to analyse credit card transactions (I am a statistician), all banks keep these records and can release them on demand to the central bank if requested. Needless to say that what is released is the end product of the analysis and not the raw data that may contain sensitive personal data. The same data protection protocols that apply in the EU apply in the RoC.

As for the total spent on casinos I don't think that anybody could check this. All I can assumme is that the central bank collate credit card transaction data that ended up in Turkey and roughly estimated the 40 million figure. Not the most accurate approach but as analysts say a good proxy as trade with Turkey is virtually does not exist

[Pyrpolizer]

The fact that I mentioned the far east was why are you so shocked happens all over the world.....there is prostitiution and drugs in the south and they are going to open casinos, so?

I can assure you that anyone who might try sell drugs, women, or guns that openlu in RoC will not stand a chance avoid prison within 24 hours.

[Pyrpolizer]

Love to know where all that money is going actually... it was reported in the Kibris today, must be Turkey, so the "RoC" is now indirectly funding the Turkish mafia, mind blowing stuff.

Could you please translate us the article. Or at least give a link and a summary of what it says?

[Pyrpolizer]

On Wednesday askimwos wrote that I was a victim of the same propaganda as VP was spreading and said:

As for the credit card records that a ridiculus statement to make. As in every european country, in the RoC apply the same rules regarding the protection of personal data, and credit card statements are considered part of personal data.

It’s not VPs propaganda, if anything its GC propaganda. From Cyprus Mail 26 Jan 07’s report of the meeting of the House Institutions Committee whose Chairman Rikkos Erotokritou ...” went on to point out that according to the Central Bank’s observation of credit card transactions, around £40 million has been spent in casinos in the north since the opening of the checkpoints”. The meeting took place with the participation of Justice Minister Sophoclis Sophocleous.

So who do I believe, askimwos or the RoC government?

It seems you have a problem understanding what YOU say and what people TELL YOU.

This is what YOU said:

The GC government make noises almost every day about spending money in 'the occupied territories' and now have let everyone know that they are examining credit card records to frighten people off spending money.

You implied there is a check on personal records.Askimwos explained you this cannot be done. What you read in Cyprus mail is not referring to personal records but for the total of transactions of credit cards to the occupied. In fact the central Bank and the company handling the Credit cards are 2 separate institutions.