Cyprus-Forum.com

[pitsilos]

VP WROTE:
""""Where were these people when my people were legitimately being buried alive? """"

What an absolute rubbish, you do not miss one second in promoting your mythological crap.
But then thats what the Mafia republic pays you to do.

Love to know where all that money is going actually... it was reported in the Kibris today, must be Turkey, so the "RoC" is now indirectly funding the Turkish mafia, mind blowing stuff.

its lining pockets with pay offs for the selected few in power. its a priveledge club.

what is the penalty if you get caught smoking dope in the north?

[observer]

On Wednesday askimwos wrote that I was a victim of the same propaganda as VP was spreading and said:

As for the credit card records that a ridiculus statement to make. As in every european country, in the RoC apply the same rules regarding the protection of personal data, and credit card statements are considered part of personal data.

It’s not VPs propaganda, if anything its GC propaganda. From Cyprus Mail 26 Jan 07’s report of the meeting of the House Institutions Committee whose Chairman Rikkos Erotokritou ...” went on to point out that according to the Central Bank’s observation of credit card transactions, around £40 million has been spent in casinos in the north since the opening of the checkpoints”. The meeting took place with the participation of Justice Minister Sophoclis Sophocleous.

So who do I believe, askimwos or the RoC government?

[observer]

On Thursday Pyrpolizer wrote:

One example of economic recognition would print a "trnc" Lira and have it exchanged at international markets.

On odd thing to say from someone who is about to lose his own currency and take up the Euro. The reason RoC is doing it is so that it can trade with its major trading partners without the problems of currency exchange. TRNC uses the YTL for the same reason.

[observer]

On Thursday Kikapu wrote:

I'm sure you can get anything in the "TRNC" as anyone else, but is that not because almost all foreign brands have to go through Turkey first. So, in another words, anything sold in the "TRNC" is basically "second hand", and perhaps even more expensive than, the same items bought in Turkey, because of the "middle men", and I did mean "men" as in plural

Firstly, thank you for considering my personal finances.

Oddly enough, prices are not more expensive in TRNC. The reverse tends to be the case, although there are exceptions. About a year ago, because I was in the South I did my weekly shop there. Just the usual things, bread, household cleaners, food etc. As I had the till roll, I compared it with prices in the North. In many cases it was exactly the same item, in other cases not the same brand name, but comparable items. All the prices were either the same, or cheaper in the North with the sole exception of plastic bin liners (true).

I believe that the transport costs are similar, since the distance travelled from anywhere to TRNC and RoC are roughly the same. Without going into great detail about modern transportation methods, most goods are now shipped around the world in 40 ft containers. They are trans-shipped through hubs and I would guess that in most instances the shipping costs are comparable.

I think that the differences in pricing are more due to overheads and profit margins. Assuming that profit margins of retailers on both sides are about the same then that leaves us with overheads, which are more costly in the South than in the North.

There is in addition the small matter of some items (sugar & dairy products I believe) which are kept artificially high within the EU as part of the EU agricultural policy. These items are cheaper in the rest of the world.

It used to be the case that there was a greater variety of goods on sale in the South, but this difference is now getting smaller.

[observer]

Kikapu

or an incomplete statement about foreign goods being bought in the "TRNC", made by "observer

Sorry, doing my best. What else do you want to know? My position, simply put, is that the “economic blockade” is losing its bite as the rest of the world increasingly seems to see TRNC as another place to do business, albeit with a bit more effort.

[observer]

Askimwos

It is thanks to GCs that the economy in the north is expanding at the moment and this is natural, as the RoC has long declared that is prepared to help the TCs get out of the economic deadlock utilising any way that is possible without recognising the regime in the north.

From the front page of Today's Cyprus Mail:

‘We will fight the EU on direct trade proposal’
By Jean Christou
NICOSIA WILL fight the approval of the proposed regulation for direct trade between the EU and the north, Foreign Minister George Lillikas said yesterday.

Need anything more on the subject be said? (though I expect someone will!)

[askimwos]

On Wednesday askimwos wrote that I was a victim of the same propaganda as VP was spreading and said:

As for the credit card records that a ridiculus statement to make. As in every european country, in the RoC apply the same rules regarding the protection of personal data, and credit card statements are considered part of personal data.

It’s not VPs propaganda, if anything its GC propaganda. From Cyprus Mail 26 Jan 06’s report of the meeting of the House Institutions Committee whose Chairman Rikkos Erotokritou ...” went on to point out that according to the Central Bank’s observation of credit card transactions, around £40 million has been spent in casinos in the north since the opening of the checkpoints”. The meeting took place with the participation of Justice Minister Sophoclis Sophocleous.

So who do I believe, askimwos or the RoC government?

Good shot observer but a weak and twisted argument. It is one thing for the Central Bank to research the total sum of money that end up in Turkey from Cyprus through the worldcredit card system and another [b]to dig into and [b]release [/b][/b] personal credit card data without a warrant. Think of mobile phone companies, they can analyse and release the total number of phone calls made say to the US but they cannot release details about certain individuals as this will be against the law. The exact same thing happens with the credit card system.
As I said in my previous post in order to investigate personal data of any individual you need a warrant and as the Attorney General stated and was quoted in that article it is almost impossible to obtain one without hard evidence.
Now who is the one that is spreading propaganda by twisting and stretching things? Apologies if this is a case that you genuinly misunderstood the article or have no background on how personal data can and cannot be handled.

[askimwos]

Askimwos

It is thanks to GCs that the economy in the north is expanding at the moment and this is natural, as the RoC has long declared that is prepared to help the TCs get out of the economic deadlock utilising any way that is possible without recognising the regime in the north.

From the front page of Today's Cyprus Mail:

‘We will fight the EU on direct trade proposal’
By Jean Christou
NICOSIA WILL fight the approval of the proposed regulation for direct trade between the EU and the north, Foreign Minister George Lillikas said yesterday.

Need anything more on the subject be said? (though I expect someone will!)

I SAID THE ROC IS COMMITED TO ANYTHING TO HELP WITH THE ECONOMIC SITUATION IN THE NORTH AS LOND AS THIS DOES NOT RECOGNISE THE PSEUDO STATE. DIRECT TRADE THROUGH ILLEGAL PORTS DOES! WHAT IS THE POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE?

PS: WHEN POSTING QUOTES PLEASE TAKE CARE TO POST THE WHOLE POST - OTHERWISE THIS IS PROPAGANDA!

HERE IS THE WHOLE POST FOR PEOPLE TO SEE:

But it's not just selling land, as I indicated by mentioning the building boom, though that helps.

Just like RoC, TRNC earns money from tourism, and numbers on this side are going up, including a lot of 'day tourists' who are counted as RoC tourists but come over for the day. GCs too - especially those who come through at 11 o'clock at night. More foreigners settling (and I don't mean Turks) bringing their pensions with them. And many TCs working in the South. Also, I suspect that quite a lot of items bought in the North are finding their way into the South, customs checks or not (think tobacco). The profit stays in the North of course.

All of these activities create jobs in the North and allow people to spend on imported and local goods, and of course the manufacturing of local goods makes work for more locals.

I would never pretend that the standard of living in the North is as high as the South, years of RoC blocking have ensured that. But now that a crack has opened following the opening of the gates and the small relaxations resulting from RoC joining the EU, all the statistics that I read tell me that the gap is closing.

Observer, all the factors you have mentioned, apart from selling land for cheap are a reality thanks to the RoC which some TCs are too quick to blame for the economic situation in the north. It is thanks to GCs that the economy in the north is expanding at the moment and this is natural, as the RoC has long declared that is prepared to help the TCs get out of the economic deadlock utilising any way that is possible without recognising the regime in the north. GCs visit the north in their thousands everyday, thousands of TCs work in the south, there are no obstacles put on foregn tourists that want to visit the north through the legal ports and there is the greenline trade agreement that still needs to expand.
It is time that TCs understand that it is not the RoC that hinders the economic development in the north but the occupation. TCs have been invided to export/import goods from the legal ports and airports but the regime in the north makes this very difficult for them. TCs also opposed to opening and comanaging the famagusta port in return to giving back the closed area of famagusta that is roting without any reason. I would go a step further and suggest to open and comanage the nicosia international airpot as well so the "no airport in the deal" argument by some TCs is forgotten. But I guess there will still be a no answer from the regime in the north as their only objective is the recognition of the trnc and not the lifting of the so called economic isolation.

[observer]

Submitted in error

[observer]

askimwos

Good shot observer but a weak and twisted argument. It is one thing for the Central Bank to research the total sum of money that end up in Turkey from Cyprus through the worldcredit card system and another [b]to dig into and [b]release personal credit card data without a warrant.

I accept this up to a point, but it’s actually stated that money has been spent in casinos in the North. On the assumption that Turkish banks do not release informaton on their individual customers to the Cypriot Central Bank, how do they come by this figure without examining the spending at the GC end? In other words by looking at who spent what where?

Apologies if this is a case that you genuinly misunderstood the article or have no background on how personal data can and cannot be handled.

I have only a layman’s knowledge of how personal data should be handled, and am aware that it should be protected. I have even less knowledge of how credit card transfers are transmitted. From the article, however, if I was a GC layman I would read into it that the GC government were examining personal credit card spending in the North and change my spending pattern “just in case”.

No personal afront taken. Nice to deal with someone who does not feel it necessary to launch a personal attack on anyone disagreeing with him.

I SAID THE ROC IS COMMITED TO ANYTHING TO HELP WITH THE ECONOMIC SITUATION IN THE NORTH AS LOND AS THIS DOES NOT RECOGNISE THE PSEUDO STATE. DIRECT TRADE THROUGH ILLEGAL PORTS DOES! WHAT IS THE POINT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE?

Both are inextricably linked. If I were a potato farmer I would want to send my potatoes to England (or wherever) by the simplest route. If you believe that exporting them through the Green Line and out of Larnaca is just as simple, and that no GC official or private individual will “accidently” leave them to rot, then I welcome your rosy tinted view of the world but find myself in disagreement. I don’t know what the proposed regulation for direct trade between the EU and the North are in detail, but if Lillikas is against them and the EU Commission thinks that they are fair, then I am inclined to believe the EU Commission’s judgement.

PS: WHEN POSTING QUOTES PLEASE TAKE CARE TO POST THE WHOLE POST - OTHERWISE THIS IS PROPAGANDA!

I get fed up reading copies long bits of writing, irrelevant to the actual point the replier is trying to make. In my selected piece I had included your comment ... “utilising any way that is possible without recognising the regime in the north”, which I thought carried the sense of your statement. Your full statement was on the thread, available to all, and if my cutting omitted anything of direct importance it was not done intentionally.