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What Are The RoC's Multicultural Policies? Should We have

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:11 am

People do not willing go live in ghettos, did you not see the discrimination that went on outside of the enclaves?


The Turkish paramilitary group TMT did, for the sake of their ideology of segregation. Infact, we all know they used scaremonger tactics on Turkish Cypriots who did not go to live in these 'ghettos'. They also kept up their air of sectarian violance to add to their cause.

People like VP are a joke and should not be taken seriously. He has twisted the truth on many occasions....like saying the RoC government threw out its TC members when it was the TC members who walked out.

Their is no point in debating with devious fundamentalist assholes like VP. Just ignore him.

As for the real issue of the thread - yes Cyprus does have problems with multicultural policies but this mainly comes out through sheer ignorance. I dont think Cyprus has a malicious problem like the UK has or had. Remember Cyprus is a small island and it is only recently that people have been emmigrating there from abroad. Cypriots are generally friendly people - so when the government does get off its ass and do something about multicultural policies and educating people via schools and media...then I think the majority of Cypriots wont have many issues with foreign residents.

I must add that while I was on holiday there this September, i seem to recall a programme on TV where various immigrants from abroad where interviewed about the racial problems they had in Cyprus. I think this is good because it will educate the Cypriot community.
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Postby shahmaran » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:17 am

...
Last edited by shahmaran on Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby shahmaran » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:18 am

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:Their is no point in debating with devious fundamentalist assholes like VP. Just ignore him.


LOL what a hypocritical TWAT, how do you sleep at night? are you not scared that the evil Turks might come after you? :lol:
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Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:24 am

Yes - im shit scared that Turks might come after me with their flags which they idolise and wave all the time here in London.

Shahmaran - cannot you take the truth? Are you one of those suckers that believes that line about "oh if someone was bullying someone smaller and then a big brother came to save them, is that not ok"??

The TC community will be under a lot more 'embargoes' or whatever you want to call them - until they start to research the Cyprus problem credibily and not through the Turkish propaganda cult.
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Postby shahmaran » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:35 am

im in london i see a LOT of flags been waved about, whats the problem? or does it only piss you off to see a Turkish flag?

your brother analogy is totally ridiculous, so you are going to claim to know the real "ethics" of warfare or something?

what is it that you cannot digest with the fact that Turkey did come in to help the TCs?
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:48 am

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:
People do not willing go live in ghettos, did you not see the discrimination that went on outside of the enclaves?


The Turkish paramilitary group TMT did, for the sake of their ideology of segregation. Infact, we all know they used scaremonger tactics on Turkish Cypriots who did not go to live in these 'ghettos'. They also kept up their air of sectarian violance to add to their cause.

People like VP are a joke and should not be taken seriously. He has twisted the truth on many occasions....like saying the RoC government threw out its TC members when it was the TC members who walked out.

Their is no point in debating with devious fundamentalist assholes like VP. Just ignore him.

As for the real issue of the thread - yes Cyprus does have problems with multicultural policies but this mainly comes out through sheer ignorance. I dont think Cyprus has a malicious problem like the UK has or had. Remember Cyprus is a small island and it is only recently that people have been emmigrating there from abroad. Cypriots are generally friendly people - so when the government does get off its ass and do something about multicultural policies and educating people via schools and media...then I think the majority of Cypriots wont have many issues with foreign residents.

I must add that while I was on holiday there this September, i seem to recall a programme on TV where various immigrants from abroad where interviewed about the racial problems they had in Cyprus. I think this is good because it will educate the Cypriot community.


snake in the grass would have been more suitable considering you are unable to even stop to understand that what I posted was correct, GCs policies of the time were to isolate the TCs always has been always will be. The above posts from the Cyprus conflict site just prove why TCs were scared and the strength in numbers issue came into being and TCs were forced into ghettos. Lets also address the TCs walking out of government you claim, lets for one minute agree you are right why in that case when TCs wanted to return Makarios tried to impose the 13 points against our will? why did our supreme court rule that the local council issue was as per the TC claim that why the TCs veto on the budget, why did Makarios not heed the TCs he just did what he wanted anyway, maybe he was the original snake.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:49 am

@ VP

The whole truth then from Cyprus conflict web site:

A veteran Turkish diplomat, looking back over the 'enormous and patient work' required to secure Turkey a 'right of say' in Cyprus, described this British statement as 'in a way, a road leading to taksim' (i.e. partition). Taksim became the slogan which was used by the increasingly militant Turkish Cypriots to counter the Greek cry of 'enosis'.
In 1957 Ku"c,u"k declared during a visit to Ankara that Turkey would claim the northern half of the island.


The Turkish Cypriots were therefore already discussing during British rule and under the pressures of the EOKA revolt, solutions--federation and partition-- which logically would require an exchange of populations on, proportionately, an immense scale (for example, the movement of more Greek Cypriots than the entire Turkish Cypriot population) to make them feasible. At first they were merely calling attention to the kinds of unwelcome issues that might be raised by the majority's persistent cry for self-determination

In 1963 the demand for changing the 13 clauses of the constitution by President Makarios is seen as the spark of the inter-communal conflict. The underground movements EOKA and TMT rekindled the mistrust increasing the tension and leading the way for a physical separation of the two communities. The UN Security Council in 1964 decided to form a UN Peace Keeping Force for Cyprus and up to this day it is still on the island. While Turkish Cypriots had to live in enclaves during this period, the inter-communal fights continued at different intervals, at different places until 1967.After this period the inter-communal relations seemed to have started to reconcile. At this time marathon meetings were held between the two leaders, Mr. Clerides and Mr. Denktash in order to find a solution to the Cyprus problem.

There was interference, and a promotion of violence, from abroad. Each side believed that it would be attacked by the other, and secretly armed accordingly. Extremists on both sides, still pursuing their pre-independence aims of enosis or taksim, became vociferous. At Christmas 1963, after a random incident of violence, there were armed attacks by a parastatal Greek-Cypriot faction (with links to the Greek/US intelligence services) against elements of the Turkish-Cypriot community. The Turkish-Cypriots reacted to what they took to be a general attack upon them: the Greek-Cypriots reacted to what they took to be a general insurrection. Inter-communal communications collapsed. Atrocities were committed. Either from harrassment, fear or political pressure the Turkish Cypriots abandoned some of the mixed villages. Nevertheless, at that stage the split was not irrevocable.

Turkish Cypriots withdrew from the government and formed enclaves within the island where they tried to establish their own administration. The Greek Cypriots saw this, along with Turkish threats of invasion and the attack of Greek Cypriot targets by the Turkish airforce in 1964, as an attempt to undermine the status of the republic and the fightings as a legitimate way to prevent the Turkish Cypriots from establishing taksim. Indeed, it seems that in those days both communities desired to unite with their respective 'motherlands'.

n summation, the general trends of the December 1963 - August 1964 period are clear. . . . Decisions were made to implement the conflicting ideas of enosis and taksim by various coercive movements. This activity created a field of violent inter-communal conflict. Violence induced a refugee movement which altered existing demographic fields. The two new fields, of armed confrontation and ethnic segregation, interacted to form fields of communally controlled territory. Subsequently a Turkish-Cypriot civil and military administration was developed to govern and protect Turk-Cypriots and the land they held. The result was the de facto partition of the Republic of Cyprus.


__________

Within the armed enclaves which the Turks created, a system of political, administrative, judicial, social and other institutions was set up, which eventually took almost all the organic characteristics of a small state. The Greeks, of course, refused to recognize it, and the Turks did not ask for recognition from other countries, if only because they knew they would not get it. But although it lacked the name of a state, what the Turkish Cypriots created was in essence a small national state, existing within defended borders, with its own Government (called after December 1967 the Turkish Cypriot Administration) public services, and even luxuries like a Football Federation and a Scouting Movement. Dr Kucuk headed the Turkish Cypriot Administration until February 1973, when he was succeeded by Mr Rauf Denktas..

From inside their armed enclaves the Turkish Cypriots developed a theory - the joint product of official policy and popular belief - that they could no longer entrust their safety to Greeks and it was therefore even more important that it had seemed earlier that they should live in separate areas, governed and policed by themselves.

As if to prove their point the Turkish leadership exerted pressure on many Turks living in Greek areas to leave their homes and properties and come to the Turkish enclaves to live as refugees. The Greek side got hold of, and published, an official Turkish document which stated that 'a fine of ,25 or other severe punishment, and one month's imprisonment or whipping' would be imposed on Turks residing in the enclaves who entered Greek areas without special permit, or who did so (permit or no permit) for the purpose of visiting Greek Courts, hospitals and other State institutions, or for business with Greeks, or friendly association with Greeks, or for promenade, or amusement. U Thant, in a report presented to the UN on 11th March 1965 stated that:

The Turkish Cypriot policy of self-isolation has led the community in the opposite direction from normality. The community leadership discourages the Turkish Cypriot population from engaging in personal, commercial or other contacts with their Greek Cypriot compatriots, from applying to Government offices in administrative matters or from resettling in their home villages if they are refugees.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:23 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:@ VP

The whole truth then from Cyprus conflict web site:

A veteran Turkish diplomat, looking back over the 'enormous and patient work' required to secure Turkey a 'right of say' in Cyprus, described this British statement as 'in a way, a road leading to taksim' (i.e. partition). Taksim became the slogan which was used by the increasingly militant Turkish Cypriots to counter the Greek cry of 'enosis'.
In 1957 Ku"c,u"k declared during a visit to Ankara that Turkey would claim the northern half of the island.


The Turkish Cypriots were therefore already discussing during British rule and under the pressures of the EOKA revolt, solutions--federation and partition-- which logically would require an exchange of populations on, proportionately, an immense scale (for example, the movement of more Greek Cypriots than the entire Turkish Cypriot population) to make them feasible. At first they were merely calling attention to the kinds of unwelcome issues that might be raised by the majority's persistent cry for self-determination

In 1963 the demand for changing the 13 clauses of the constitution by President Makarios is seen as the spark of the inter-communal conflict. The underground movements EOKA and TMT rekindled the mistrust increasing the tension and leading the way for a physical separation of the two communities. The UN Security Council in 1964 decided to form a UN Peace Keeping Force for Cyprus and up to this day it is still on the island. While Turkish Cypriots had to live in enclaves during this period, the inter-communal fights continued at different intervals, at different places until 1967.After this period the inter-communal relations seemed to have started to reconcile. At this time marathon meetings were held between the two leaders, Mr. Clerides and Mr. Denktash in order to find a solution to the Cyprus problem.

There was interference, and a promotion of violence, from abroad. Each side believed that it would be attacked by the other, and secretly armed accordingly. Extremists on both sides, still pursuing their pre-independence aims of enosis or taksim, became vociferous. At Christmas 1963, after a random incident of violence, there were armed attacks by a parastatal Greek-Cypriot faction (with links to the Greek/US intelligence services) against elements of the Turkish-Cypriot community. The Turkish-Cypriots reacted to what they took to be a general attack upon them: the Greek-Cypriots reacted to what they took to be a general insurrection. Inter-communal communications collapsed. Atrocities were committed. Either from harrassment, fear or political pressure the Turkish Cypriots abandoned some of the mixed villages. Nevertheless, at that stage the split was not irrevocable.

Turkish Cypriots withdrew from the government and formed enclaves within the island where they tried to establish their own administration. The Greek Cypriots saw this, along with Turkish threats of invasion and the attack of Greek Cypriot targets by the Turkish airforce in 1964, as an attempt to undermine the status of the republic and the fightings as a legitimate way to prevent the Turkish Cypriots from establishing taksim. Indeed, it seems that in those days both communities desired to unite with their respective 'motherlands'.

n summation, the general trends of the December 1963 - August 1964 period are clear. . . . Decisions were made to implement the conflicting ideas of enosis and taksim by various coercive movements. This activity created a field of violent inter-communal conflict. Violence induced a refugee movement which altered existing demographic fields. The two new fields, of armed confrontation and ethnic segregation, interacted to form fields of communally controlled territory. Subsequently a Turkish-Cypriot civil and military administration was developed to govern and protect Turk-Cypriots and the land they held. The result was the de facto partition of the Republic of Cyprus.


__________

Within the armed enclaves which the Turks created, a system of political, administrative, judicial, social and other institutions was set up, which eventually took almost all the organic characteristics of a small state. The Greeks, of course, refused to recognize it, and the Turks did not ask for recognition from other countries, if only because they knew they would not get it. But although it lacked the name of a state, what the Turkish Cypriots created was in essence a small national state, existing within defended borders, with its own Government (called after December 1967 the Turkish Cypriot Administration) public services, and even luxuries like a Football Federation and a Scouting Movement. Dr Kucuk headed the Turkish Cypriot Administration until February 1973, when he was succeeded by Mr Rauf Denktas..

From inside their armed enclaves the Turkish Cypriots developed a theory - the joint product of official policy and popular belief - that they could no longer entrust their safety to Greeks and it was therefore even more important that it had seemed earlier that they should live in separate areas, governed and policed by themselves.


As if to prove their point the Turkish leadership exerted pressure on many Turks living in Greek areas to leave their homes and properties and come to the Turkish enclaves to live as refugees. The Greek side got hold of, and published, an official Turkish document which stated that 'a fine of ,25 or other severe punishment, and one month's imprisonment or whipping' would be imposed on Turks residing in the enclaves who entered Greek areas without special permit, or who did so (permit or no permit) for the purpose of visiting Greek Courts, hospitals and other State institutions, or for business with Greeks, or friendly association with Greeks, or for promenade, or amusement. U Thant, in a report presented to the UN on 11th March 1965 stated that:

The Turkish Cypriot policy of self-isolation has led the community in the opposite direction from normality. The community leadership discourages the Turkish Cypriot population from engaging in personal, commercial or other contacts with their Greek Cypriot compatriots, from applying to Government offices in administrative matters or from resettling in their home villages if they are refugees.


Great piece, a TC people in fear and persecution are forced to group for safety and make things work due to great mistrust of the GCs, the taksim idea was always a reaction to enosis, without this enosis dream you would not have brought upon yourselves the reality you live today. If you mistrust someone do you want to associate with them? you never want to see or have anything to do with them ever again this is human nature and the TCs withdrew into their own shell for mainly safety reasons. The rest just evolved from not wanting to expose themselves to the ferocity of getting in the way of GCs demanding enosis.
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Postby observer » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:45 am

"Furthermore imo the TC leaders should have gone directly to the UN and secure a resolution. Of course nothing like that ever happened, because that wouldn't serve their taksim agenda very well..."

The UN Peacekeeping Force were here from 1964. TC leaders frequently complained to them. The complaints were recorded but as GCs were recognised by the UN as the legitimate government there was no action that the UN could take against what was regarded as an internal affair, other than observe it.

A similar situation is happening in the Darfur province of Sudan today, with the UN inhibited from taking action because of their inability to interfer in the internal affairs of a country. Of course, you are free to believe that the Darfuri leaders are forcing their people into enclaves if you want to believe that. Because of the scale of Darfur, the changed world political spectrum, and the immediacy of international news gathering, at least Darfur is getting mass publicity which has resulted in the occasional UN resolution.
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Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:07 pm

VP...the Snake and the Crane are the two animal styles used in the Wing Chun system.

Something which I would only be to happy to give to you a personal demonstration.
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