Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Alexis maybe I am not being to clear but when I say legalise the current situation I also want to allow for the GC/TC refugees to have the right to return and live where they wish or get compensation at todays prices. Other issues which concern the GC shoud also be addressed like freedom of movement which shoud be allowed even if we are divided. I still feel it would be a lot easier than a forced partnership/marriage call it what you will as the structure is very much in place.

[Alexis]

Alexis maybe I am not being to clear but when I say legalise the current situation I also want to allow for the GC/TC refugees to have the right to return and live where they wish or get compensation at todays prices. Other issues which concern the GC shoud also be addressed like freedom of movement which shoud be allowed even if we are divided. I still feel it would be a lot easier than a forced partnership/marriage call it what you will as the structure is very much in place.

Hi vp,

If that's the case then that is at least encouraging from the GC point of view. We can and should certainly negotiate along any lines that result in an easing of the current situation, to a situation where all Cypriots can enjoy Cyprus, so by all means this should be done. As a GC I would always push for a fair deal for my community, so in the event of partition I would push for as much as possible as this is essentially a game of numbers. I think in a union the numbers game becomes a lot less of a big deal simply because it won't be seen as a division in the same way. This is why I feel unity would serve the country and its people better than partition. Anyway it's good to hear some more constructive thoughts, much appreciated.

[Viewpoint]

Alexis maybe I am not being to clear but when I say legalise the current situation I also want to allow for the GC/TC refugees to have the right to return and live where they wish or get compensation at todays prices. Other issues which concern the GC shoud also be addressed like freedom of movement which shoud be allowed even if we are divided. I still feel it would be a lot easier than a forced partnership/marriage call it what you will as the structure is very much in place.

Hi vp,

If that's the case then that is at least encouraging from the GC point of view. We can and should certainly negotiate along any lines that result in an easing of the current situation, to a situation where all Cypriots can enjoy Cyprus, so by all means this should be done. As a GC I would always push for a fair deal for my community, so in the event of partition I would push for as much as possible as this is essentially a game of numbers. I think in a union the numbers game becomes a lot less of a big deal simply because it won't be seen as a division in the same way. This is why I feel unity would serve the country and its people better than partition. Anyway it's good to hear some more constructive thoughts, much appreciated.

Those numbers would really depend on the number to Gcs wishing to return or keep property rights in the TRNC or whetehr they opt for compensation.

[MR-from-NG]

Bullcrap.

There was never a "marriage". In Cyprus we have a Greek Cypriot majority and a Turkish Cypriot minority. Can you imagine the Blacks of the USA asking for a "divorce" and taking 1/3rd of the states exclusively for themselves?

If there is one thing I will say about your crappy metaphor is this: We never asked for the Turks to "marry" us. Why did they came to our island in the first place? If there is a metaphor for the reason they came, that was to rape and exploit us, not to marry us. They are welcome to stay as equal RoC and EU citizens and respect our legal, human and democratic rights in the same way we respect theirs, but if they don't want that then nobody can keep them on our island and they are free to go in the way they came.

Cypriots have suffered for centuries and continue to suffer from the expansionistic Turks that have always wanted our island for themselves. Trying to portrait the Turks as the victims in the case of Cyprus is a joke.

Here is what I have to say about this, not with Mr, Ms, uncles and other crap but with real facts:

First of all I have to make something very clear:

I believe that we should leave the past behind, we should forgive each other, stop all illegalities and move ahead with a united democratic country without racist discriminations and with respect to the human rights of all Cypriots.

Unfortunately I notice that there some people that insist on using a tiny and selective part of the past as an excuse for the continuation of illegalities and their demand for a "solution" that will be based on racist discrimination of people based on their ethnic background (which is something that exists in no democratic country in the world)

To those people Greek Cypriots deserved the violations of their human rights for the last 32 years and they deserve to be convicted for eternal violation of their human rights in a country that discriminates against them because of their race.

The fact is however that Turks in Cyprus have committed 100 times more crimes against Greek Cypriots than the other way around.

Greek Cypriots have been the majority on the island of Cyprus for 3000+ years. Their interaction with Turks starts in the 15th century, were the Turks attacked our island. This also answers the question "Who started it" for anybody that thinks that this is important:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.

So now it is clear how the interaction of Turks with Greek Cypriots started in Cyprus, and the question "Who started it" is answered as well.

What followed were 300 years of Ottoman rule in Cyprus. During these 3 centuries Greek Cypriots were oppressed second category citizens. They had to pay multiple times the taxes of muslims and their testimony in courts was not accepted. Whenever they tried to revolt against their oppressors they were slaughtered.

So here we have a period were Turks were oppressing and killing Greeks in Cyprus. The result of this period was 300 years of oppression against GCs and 10s of thousands of Greek Cypriots dead.

The next "round" of conflict between the two communities was at the end of the British rule in Cyprus, and then from 63 to 68. During this period extremists from both sides were committing crimes and atrocities.

This is the only period that TCs remember, but even here they remember only their own casualties and not the crimes that they had committed against GCs.

So this is a period were both sides had about an equal number of casualties, some 100s for each side.

Then in 1974 the illegal coupists overthrow our president and Turkey found the excuse to invade Cyprus. No TC was killed by the coupists before the invasion had started, but only after.
The result of the coup/invasion was 6000 GCs dead and 200.000 GCs ethnically cleansed. On the other side the TCs had only a couple of 100s of victims.

The next period is the 32 years of illegal occupation and insistence from Turkey to violate international law and human rights. This continues until today.

Conclusion:
1) The Turks "started it" in the 15th century
2) The Turks have committed much much more crimes against Greek Cypriots.
3) The Turks insist on their crimes today
4) Greek Cypriots have committed crimes as well, but only a tiny fraction of the crimes that the Turks have committed.

Still, Greek Cypriots are more than willing to put all these behind as long as we are not provoked by people that remember only the 1% of history that suits that in order to prove that Greek Cypriots are the evil people that deserve even more crimes against them.

Therefore I ask from people on this forum to either:

1) Leave the past behind. Do not try to excuse crimes and illegalities in 2006 with events that happened in the past. Concentrate on how we can find a solution that will respect all Cypriots equally without racist discriminations and human right violations.

Or, if doing (1) is impossible for you then at least:

2) If you believe that the past should be used to determine who is the "good" and who is the "bad" one and that this should be the basis of solving the Cyprus problem (instead of democracy, human rights and legality, that I propose) then at least use the whole history and not the tiny bits that suit you.

Piratis, what you have to say is irrelevant. You are a Turk hater through and through.

You are insignificant, you count for nothing and will soon find out the hard way that the TC's have always been your legitimate partners in Cyprus and the marriage was a legal one and that the long awaited divorce is imminent.

God, why do you have to create such arseholes as Piratis to contaminate this beautiful planet? What were you thinking of when you created such fucking idiots?

[donyork]

Piratus is not be mocked. His value is this: whenever you want to make a point, and he comes ranting onto this site, you know you were right. He removes doubt. With Piratis against you, all is well.

[Piratis]

I hate criminal assholes that commit crimes against me and violate my human, legal and democratic rights, and I am perfectly justified to do so.

And dowok, the only ones who disagree with me are the criminals that support illegalities, something that confirms my right position.

Seriously, do you think you can keep the illegal occupation of Cyprus and the violations of our human and democratic rights and expect us to love you in return? Of course we hate those criminals that commit crimes against us. Everybody does, and it is perfectly natural. (except maybe for some masochists who like to be violated)

so tell me something Piratis, have the Greeks actually grown on trees in Cyprus and became "natives", did god suddenly drop you from the sky and you landed on this island?

When the Greeks first came to Cyprus the population of Cyprus was just a few thousand people located in several mostly small villages around the island. The concept of a "country" did not exist then. The Greeks founded new cities and brought their civilization and culture to the island. Slowly slowly the rest of the Cypriots adopted the superior Greek civilization and culture and the result was the Greek Cypriots. Later on many others came as well (Phoenicians, Persians, Latins etc). Some of them were also assimilated into "Greek Cypriots", and some others maintained their unique characteristics (e.g. Armenians, Maronites etc).

In the case of Turkish Cypriots however (who are mostly Greek and other Cypriots that converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule + some of the Ottoman soldiers and craftsmen that came during that era) the problem is that they do not accept to be equal Cypriots like the rest of us (GCs, Armenians, Maronites, Latins and all the other Cypriot citizens) but they demand to have undemocratic privileges and powers as if we are still under the Ottoman rule. They do this because they are used by Turkey who promises to them that they can gain a lot more (on the loss of the rest of Cypriots) by insisting on being separated instead of accepting to be part of the one Cypriot country.

Cyprus belongs equally to all Cypriot citizens, including TCs. This is why you have no right to take a part of it and declare it as being "Turkish" and ethnically cleanse all the rest Cypriots from their cities and villages.

well thank you sir, for you kindness and forgiveness and you have such a big heart, you are willing to forgive us regardless of "us starting this fight " almost 1000 years ago, you are ever so understanding, i shall crumble before your greatness and hide my head in shame for ever and carry this burden with me untill the day i day, thank you ever so much for letting me live on your island....

The occupation of our country and the violations of our human rights happen as we speak and for the last 32 years, not 1000 years ago. And yes, we are willing to forgive you if after all these centuries of disrespect against us, you finally start showing some respect. And in the same way we are willing to forgive your much more crimes, I would hope that you would also be willing to forgive our crimes as well, for the sake of finally having peace, human rights for all and democracy. If you continue to selectively use the past as a lame excuse to commit yet more crimes against us, this is a guaranteed way that the circle of blood will continue, and believe me that you will not benefit from this either.

[T_C]

[Sotos]

Seriously, do you think you can keep the illegal occupation of Cyprus and the violations of our human and democratic rights and expect us to love you in return? Of course we hate those criminals that commit crimes against us. Everybody does, and it is perfectly natural. (except maybe for some masochists who like to be violated)

Exactly my thoughts!

[Duke-Nukem]

Divorce ...my azzz

Amputation is the right word.

btw hi everyone

[Kifeas]

Alexis maybe I am not being to clear but when I say legalise the current situation I also want to allow for the GC/TC refugees to have the right to return and live where they wish or get compensation at todays prices. Other issues which concern the GC shoud also be addressed like freedom of movement which shoud be allowed even if we are divided. I still feel it would be a lot easier than a forced partnership/marriage call it what you will as the structure is very much in place.

No VP, we are not interested in your proposal! We are not interested in living under Kemal Ataturk's twisted nationalist ideology and foolish nationalist slogans painted everywhere on mountains. We will only come and live in the occupied part of our country as free people, with all our cultural and political rights fully respected, and not under the terms and conditions of a militaristic country with zero political and democratic culture, such as Turkey and its "TRNC" offspring.