The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Direct flights - 7000 in favour and only 300 against

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby YFred » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:05 pm

Get Real! wrote:
doesntmatter wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Therefore, any direct flights can only occur if the RoC declares ERCAN a legitimate port. That can only happen if ERCAN comes under the RoC Civil Aviation Department's jurisdiction.

The laws and regulations can be and does get changed/ammended to suit the big boys and a handful of GC/Greeks are not going to step them doing what they want.

Unfortunately for you, Turkish Cypriots or the "TRNC" are not considered "big boys" and after 35 years I thought you would've realized that by now.



Plots for the new hotels on the Mağusa strip have been bought by the same "big boys". Fancy that, I wonder why they did that?
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby Get Real! » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:47 pm

YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
doesntmatter wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Therefore, any direct flights can only occur if the RoC declares ERCAN a legitimate port. That can only happen if ERCAN comes under the RoC Civil Aviation Department's jurisdiction.

The laws and regulations can be and does get changed/ammended to suit the big boys and a handful of GC/Greeks are not going to step them doing what they want.

Unfortunately for you, Turkish Cypriots or the "TRNC" are not considered "big boys" and after 35 years I thought you would've realized that by now.

Plots for the new hotels on the Mağusa strip have been bought by the same "big boys". Fancy that, I wonder why they did that?

Start wondering why you don't have a credible link first...
User avatar
Get Real!
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 48333
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:25 am
Location: Nicosia

Postby YFred » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:08 am

Medman wrote:Kurupetos

As so many people on this forum like to point out that North Cyprus or the TRNC doesn't exist. CTA is registered in Turkey hence the TC registration and flag. I like the picture though its an old one. CTA doesn't fly the Airbus 310-200 series anymore. Cyprus Airways use too fly this model as well. You mean both the Greeks and Turks have flown the same aircraft type. Oh its too controversial for words.


No No No. There is no controversy at all. KTHY had same planes but better pilots.
This is no a point scoring. Its a fact.

How many GC pilots have ever been able to stand up to their airline and not take off due to safety issue. Can somebody find the safety report after the recent crash and put in on here to see.

I personally have witnessed 3 occasions where KTHY Pilot refused to fly until aircraft was in fit condition. Making us wait upto 12 hours until another aircraft arrived. I thank them for that, because I am still alive.

Safety is paramount to the KTHY pilots. Does this mean that they will not crash. No. But because of these pilots, statistically we safer. Given the choice I know who I would fly with.
Last edited by YFred on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby YFred » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:12 am

Get Real! wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
doesntmatter wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Therefore, any direct flights can only occur if the RoC declares ERCAN a legitimate port. That can only happen if ERCAN comes under the RoC Civil Aviation Department's jurisdiction.

The laws and regulations can be and does get changed/ammended to suit the big boys and a handful of GC/Greeks are not going to step them doing what they want.

Unfortunately for you, Turkish Cypriots or the "TRNC" are not considered "big boys" and after 35 years I thought you would've realized that by now.

Plots for the new hotels on the Mağusa strip have been bought by the same "big boys". Fancy that, I wonder why they did that?

Start wondering why you don't have a credible link first...


The answer to that lies with the UN and its failings. Any one of 5 UN permanent members have the right to veto. You have 2 friends on it. Sooner or later it will reverse.
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby YFred » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:22 am

CBBB wrote:Let us know when somebody actually travels on a pre-advertised scheduled non-stop (direct just means you don't change planes, but can stop somewhere) flight between Tymbou and an EU member airport.

I won't hold my breath!


I remember in the mid sixties as a child listening to makarios broadcasting corporation playing " Bekledim da gelmedin" trying to destroy the morale of TC. It was amazing because it actually had the opposite effect.

How quick the role reversed.

You will find us very patient and hopeful. We had to be after living with you for so long.

So keep it up.
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:23 am

YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
doesntmatter wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Therefore, any direct flights can only occur if the RoC declares ERCAN a legitimate port. That can only happen if ERCAN comes under the RoC Civil Aviation Department's jurisdiction.

The laws and regulations can be and does get changed/ammended to suit the big boys and a handful of GC/Greeks are not going to step them doing what they want.

Unfortunately for you, Turkish Cypriots or the "TRNC" are not considered "big boys" and after 35 years I thought you would've realized that by now.



Plots for the new hotels on the Mağusa strip have been bought by the same "big boys". Fancy that, I wonder why they did that?


You can't just come here and make statements like this.

Who are the "big boys" and can you please provide some evidence which confirms their investment?

When you say Magusa strip, are you referring to the Ghost Town by any chance? :?
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Postby YFred » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:35 am

Paphitis wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
doesntmatter wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Therefore, any direct flights can only occur if the RoC declares ERCAN a legitimate port. That can only happen if ERCAN comes under the RoC Civil Aviation Department's jurisdiction.

The laws and regulations can be and does get changed/ammended to suit the big boys and a handful of GC/Greeks are not going to step them doing what they want.

Unfortunately for you, Turkish Cypriots or the "TRNC" are not considered "big boys" and after 35 years I thought you would've realized that by now.



Plots for the new hotels on the Mağusa strip have been bought by the same "big boys". Fancy that, I wonder why they did that?


You can't just come here and make statements like this.

Who are the "big boys" and can you please provide some evidence which confirms their investment?

When you say Magusa strip, are you referring to the Ghost Town by any chance? :?


From Turkish Magusa to Karpaz.

The list, I'll do one better, next time I am there I will take pictures of the construction and publish it on here.
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:40 am

No No No. There is no controversy at all. KTHY has same planes but better pilots.
This is no a point scoring. Its a fact.


:lol: Really?

Can you please prove to me that KTHY pilots are better than Cyprus Airways Pilots, who are usually Oxford educated or former military.

How many GC pilots have ever been able to stand up to their airline and not take off due to safety issue.


I am a GC pilot that is still working in Australia. I also know many GC pilots that work for Cyprus Airways.

I can assure you that on an aircraft, there are no Managers or Directors. There is no commercial pressure when it comes down to SAFETY.

The Captain is in charge and responsible for the safety of the aircraft and passengers, and will cancel or delay any flight without batting an eye lid should he/she think that safety is compromised for whatever reason.

I personally have witnessed 3 occasions where KTHY Pilot refused to fly until aircraft was in fit condition. Making us wait upto 12 hours until another aircraft arrived. I thank them for that, because I am still alive.


GC pilots also cancel or delay flights for various reasons, including technical unserviceabilities, and weather. This is standard practice all over the world.

What is a proven fact, is the current airspace structure over Nicosia FIR not under RoC control. Pilots who fly in the area are always talking about this debacle. Just visit PPrune and do some research.

Safety is paramount to the KTHY pilots. Does this mean that they will not crash. No. But because of these pilots, statistically we safer.


Safety is paramount at Cyprus Airways as well.

However, what is unsafe is the ERCAN control area, which is not recognised by anyone and has made a mockery of established ICAO Air Traffic Control procedures. What is risky about the north part of Cyprus is the fact that the chances of a possible mid air collision are increased as aircraft are wrongfully cleared by ERCAN control to contact other authorities such as BEIRUT, without speaking to LARNACA, even when overflying the free areas.

Most airlines are now introducing Standard Operating Procedures which ensure that their pilots always speak to Larnaca, even when flying over occupied areas or entering Nicosia FIR from the north (Turkey).

This corner of airspace is referred to as CHAOS CORNER.
Last edited by Paphitis on Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:42 am

YFred wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
YFred wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
doesntmatter wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Therefore, any direct flights can only occur if the RoC declares ERCAN a legitimate port. That can only happen if ERCAN comes under the RoC Civil Aviation Department's jurisdiction.

The laws and regulations can be and does get changed/ammended to suit the big boys and a handful of GC/Greeks are not going to step them doing what they want.

Unfortunately for you, Turkish Cypriots or the "TRNC" are not considered "big boys" and after 35 years I thought you would've realized that by now.



Plots for the new hotels on the Mağusa strip have been bought by the same "big boys". Fancy that, I wonder why they did that?


You can't just come here and make statements like this.

Who are the "big boys" and can you please provide some evidence which confirms their investment?

When you say Magusa strip, are you referring to the Ghost Town by any chance? :?


From Turkish Magusa to Karpaz.

The list, I'll do one better, next time I am there I will take pictures of the construction and publish it on here.


Sorry, that is not good enough. Anyone can take pictures of a construction site.

You insinuated that there is GC Investment on the Magusa Strip.

Can you verify this? I am not interested in your pictures.
User avatar
Paphitis
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 32303
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 2:06 pm

Postby YFred » Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:12 am

This leaked report makes interesting reading of Aircraft and CAA.

‘Doomed from the outset’
By Elias Hazou
(archive article - Tuesday, March 21, 2006)
Greek paper says leaked report points to grave errors that led to crash

OVERSIGHTS ON the ground, slackness on the part of the crew during the flight, inadequate controls by the Civil Aviation Authority and faulty flightdeck consoles by Boeing – led to what has been dubbed the worst peacetime disaster in Cyprus’ recent history.

The above are the conclusions gleaned from a leaked draft of the accident report, published by Greek daily Kathimerini on Sunday. Citing its sources, the paper commented ominously that flight ZU-522, the August 14 crash of Helios Airways that claimed the lives of 121 people, was “doomed from the outset.”

According to Kathimerini, chief air investigator Akrivos Tsolakis and his team of experts have found that the confusion over the decompression warning alarm “could under no circumstances have been the cause on its own…there were dozens of other omissions in air safety that contributed to the crash.”

Now seven months in the making, Tsolakis’ voluminous probe should be ready sometime in April. It comprises 200 pages, divided into four chapters: the facts of the case; analysis of the facts; the findings/causes of the accident; and a list of safety recommendations. This is followed by thousands of pages of appendices with all the documents used in the investigation.

Kathimerini said the probe would apportion responsibility on all those involved with aviation in Cyprus, and would be particularly damning on civil aviation, for an “unparalleled absence of assessing air flight safety,” and on the airline for “criminal negligence”.

The inquiry contains some chilling details on the sequence of events. Problems began with mistakes on the ground that were subsequently not dealt with in the air. Shortly after takeoff at 9am on the fateful day, two warnings – one for the decompression system, the other for the cooling system – were sounded almost simultaneously.

The warning horn sounded after the aircraft reached an altitude of 10,000 feet. The cabin decompression switch had been left on manual by ground crew during pre-flight checks, while it should have been set to automatic.

Still, this lapse could have been detected in time by the pilots had they properly scanned their gauges and carried out a checklist of components before takeoff. The aviators apparently did not do that.

When the decompression alarm went off, the crew – who had assumed that the decompression switch was on auto – mistakenly took this for a glitch in the positioning of the flaps, because the sounds emitted in both cases are identical. As the aircraft climbed to 34,000 feet, both the pilots and passengers gradually suffered the effects of hypoxia, or low oxygen in the blood: giddiness, loss of consciousness and finally deep slumber.

Captain Hans-Juergen Merten, who had left his seat to check the cooling system, is believed to have fainted inside the cabin.

According to the paper, all the people on board suffered irreversible brain damage from the lack of oxygen, and even if anyone had actually survived the horrific crash they would have been left in a vegetative state.

That includes flight attendant Andreas Prodromou who managed to retain consciousness using a portable oxygen mask at 14,000 feet and vainly tried to fly the plane before it slammed into a ravine at Grammatikos, outside Athens.

Moving on, the probe hauls the Cypriot Civil Aviation Authority over the coals, reportedly suggesting that its system of controls was “full of holes”. Kathimerini’s sources say the agency did not carry out the necessary checks on planes and often ignored instructions from ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organisation). Moreover, it blew off recommendations periodically made by its two British consultants.

However, partial responsibility also lies with EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) and JAA (Joint Aviation Authorities) for failing to place the local civil aviation authorities under surveillance and thus acting preventatively.

As far as Helios Airways is concerned, the probe reportedly notes the marked “lack of a safety culture” in the company. The airline’s employees were hired on six-month contracts, giving them no career prospects and thus no incentives. The same corporate policy extended to the pilots, as the airline tended to hire the “cheapest they could find”,
Aircraft manufacturers Boeing also had its share of blame. In his probe, Tsolakis notes the confusion generated over the decompression warning signal and that Boeing should have taken steps to rectify this.

What is more, the company’s manual for the Boeing 737-300 was vague. Instead of explicitly instructing ground technicians to reset the decompression switch to auto, the manual simply said that the switch should be set “to the previous position,” i.e. from manual to auto.

The manual setting is used in pre-flight checks to simulate decompression situations, but needs to revert to automatic for takeoff.

According to procedure, when completed the probe will be communicated to the US’s National Transportation Safety Board and to Helios, who then need to respond to the observations within 60 days. Once their answers are in, the report will be published, opening the way for any legal proceedings by the victims’ relatives, who for months now have been agonisingly waiting for the truth to come out.

In a related development, ICAO is considering enforcing stricter controls on the civil aviation authorities of countries that are deemed to be problematic. One proposal is to appoint a “guardian” who would monitor the authorities and ensure they comply with all safety standards.

At the ICAO summit in Montreal, Canada, the heads of civil aviation authorities around the world are being asked to authorise the publication of the results of checks on the organisation’s website.
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests