Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

i owe appology to no one, pitsilos if you are so sure that Turkey is not up for investigating the case then proove it, you seem to be so sure about Turkey lets see you evidence, everyone knows that Turkey has invited historians from both side, so stop acting like a rusty old record with no brains and start doing some explaining, coz both you and miltiades and pyr are the same, you just repeat twist and insult when you have no bullets left....

and pyr for the love of god stop PLAYING with numbers!!! there was not 1 village but there was Atlilar, Sandallilar, Murataga and Taskent and who knows where else would have been if they were not stopped, so cut the crap pyr, wtf 80 ppl you are laughable like miltiades, the guy only restores to loving EVERYONE when it suits him, talk about wiggling...

You are such a pupil

[Pyrpolizer]

and pyr for the love of god stop PLAYING with numbers!!! there was not 1 village but there was Atlilar, Sandallilar, Murataga and Taskent and who knows where else would have been if they were not stopped, so cut the crap pyr, wtf 80 ppl you are laughable Laughing like miltiades, the guy only restores to loving EVERYONE when it suits him, talk about wiggling...

In case you haven’t realised it yet, what defines GENOCIDE is numbers.
1.5 million dead out of 2.5 million people is GENOCIDE

You are not very smart. I gave the example of just one village out of the 4 million -sorry just 4 - villages you had dead people.

Now tell me Shahi boy, in how many GC villages the GCs were slaughtered in 1974? More than 200 villages or less?

[shahmaran]

Pyr you are an utter fool! The war was WW1!!!!!!!

most of them died on their way to their country, they were being deported and a lot of them died due to the harsh conditions, Turkey is made up of over 20 ethnic groups, why should they try to wipe out just the Armenians when they have been living under the Ottoman rule for hundres of years anyway, most of them fought side by side with the Turks during the war and a lot of them tried to stab Turkey in the back, no one is denying they died but there was no genocide specifically on their ethnicity, those bastards slaughtered a few hundred thousand Turks themselves (civilians too, its what got them killed in the first place) shall we claim genocide too?!

[T_C]

You think Turkeys bad with numbers, what about the Armenians in the beginning? 1.5 is where they stopped but take a look at where they started...



What a joke...and you try telling us about propaganda!?!?!

[Pyrpolizer]

You are unbelievable just go and look over your colourful posts where have tried to ridicule and degrade Turkeys stance over the Armenian issue, you are a Turk hater through and through and this is very obvious to everyone. You ask a question you get the answer and you ask the question yet again cause you don't like the answer, how can you discuss anything with someone who is so blinkered that he does not want to understand what the otherside is saying. No one is denying these people were killed but what we are saying is that Turkey should be given a fair trial before sentencing. You are together with the Armenian lobby accepting to judge this issue without listening to the other sides and labelling everyhting propaganda which we all know you are an expert at. Turkey is by no means a saint and has many problems but this happens all the world and is not unique to Turkey.

wtf is going on here? you are not the same vp as before. this a completely different person posting. same mentality by grammar is different. even the spelling mistakes are different.

who ever you are you can fool people, but not people where english is their main language.

take a hike

PItsilos I am shocked!!
And i mean it!!
I noticed the same thing tonight by reading this topic only...
Something is different. It is not just the curses.
See my post above about speaking "Turkish". I beleive Kikapu must see this.

VIEWPOINT WHO THE HELL ARE YOU?

[shahmaran]

and pyr for the love of god stop PLAYING with numbers!!! there was not 1 village but there was Atlilar, Sandallilar, Murataga and Taskent and who knows where else would have been if they were not stopped, so cut the crap pyr, wtf 80 ppl you are laughable Laughing like miltiades, the guy only restores to loving EVERYONE when it suits him, talk about wiggling...

In case you haven’t realised it yet, what defines GENOCIDE is numbers.
1.5 million dead out of 2.5 million people is GENOCIDE

You are not very smart. I gave the example of just one village out of the 4 million -sorry just 4 - villages you had dead people.

Now tell me Shahi boy, in how many GC villages the GCs were slaughtered in 1974? More than 200 villages or less?

Pyr im sorry but i swear sometimes you speak like a crackhead!!

GENOCIDE is the slaughter of a specific ethnic or religious group in order to wipe them out, NOT THE NUMBERS!!

Now Turkey killed a lot of people back in the day, mainly separatist and religious morons, but didnt actually try to "wipe" out any race, there is no need to, however the GCs ACTUALLY set off to WIPE OUT the TCs in order to make Cyprus a part of the Greek holy lands, as did the Armenians. But you with your halfbrain is claiming that GCs just slaughtered 85 people in 1 village, it was not an example, you actually claimed that smartypants, dont make me go fetch it now.

So shall i quickly grab a definition of what genocide is for you too, because you seem to be awfully confused...here you go little man, dont forget your reading glasses...



gen·o·cide :

The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, or ethnic group.
[Greek genos, race; see gen- in Indo-European roots + -cide.]

now i really cant see your idea of "genocide" in there

[miltiades]

SHAH Wrote:
""Now Turkey killed a lot of people back in the day, mainly separatist and religious morons, but didnt actually try to "wipe" out any race, there is no need to, however the GCs ACTUALLY set off to WIPE OUT the TCs in order to make Cyprus a part of the Greek holy lands, as did the Armenians. But you with your halfbrain is claiming that GCs just slaughtered 85 people in 1 village, it was not an example, you actually claimed that smartypants, dont make me go fetch it now. """
Go drink your milk and when you are a man come back and debate.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyr you are an utter fool! The war was WW1!!!!!!!

most of them died on their way to their country, they were being deported and a lot of them died due to the harsh conditions, Turkey is made up of over 20 ethnic groups, why should they try to wipe out just the Armenians when they have been living under the Ottoman rule for hundres of years anyway, most of them fought side by side with the Turks during the war and a lot of them tried to stab Turkey in the back, no one is denying they died but there was no genocide specifically on their ethnicity, those bastards slaughtered a few hundred thousand Turks themselves (civilians too, its what got them killed in the first place) shall we claim genocide too?!

Shahi boy, lets take a walk man OK. (By the way have you ever taken a walk longer than say 5 KM?)

Your walk will be from Smyrni to Armenia. How far away is it 1000 KM? After the first 20 Km no person beyond 50 can walk anymore. Hmm lets see what should we do with them? Any ideas?
Lets continue. Another 50 km and half the women can't walk anymore. 4 days already passed.
Hmm what should the accompanying soldiers do? Any ideas?
Continue walking man.

HAVE YOU EVER TRIED (IF YOU EVER SERVED IN THE ARMY i.e) TO MARCH 20 Km Shahi boy?

I am not that good in writting stories upto the 1000 th Km. You try and tell me how many survived.

[T_C]

I also found this very good question on the same site...

Why was every single Ottoman official, incarcerated for war crimes during the nearly two-and-a-half years of the Malta Tribunals, finally acquitted? Especially when they were in the hands of the occupying British force, a country (among others, but mainly it was Lloyd George’s Great Britain) who tried to wipe Turkey off the face of the earth... and every Ottoman document was freely available (before the days “shredding” would come to mind) to the Allies and their crack team of Armenian researchers?

Why were they not found guilty at a time they were most vulnerable if they had commited a genocide? PLEASE TELL ME!

Why has it taken this long for them to come up with "evidence" when CLEARLY at the time it supposedly happened they had NOTHING to prove it with?!?

We can believe the Armenians' "cooked book" figures, or we can trust over half a dozen neutral sources from the period that state the Armenian population could not have surpassed a million and a half. A recent Armenian anti-Turkish "proclamation" claims one million Armenians survived the war, which means the number of dead Armenians from all causes afflicting all Ottoman citizens numbered around half a million. Since it's so hard to believe this large number could have died through old-fashioned, untechnological "brute force" methods, in a dying empire with limited manpower and resources, desperately fighting a war on five fronts, the Armenians and their supporters claim "starvation" during the relocations was another murder method... handily forgetting even sources such as Henry Morgenthau stated thousands of Turks were dying daily from the deplorable conditions (that is, famine and disease truly affected everybody, not just the Armenians). However, if we imagine starvation was the convenient murder method, how much effort would it have taken to pick off the few resilient human beings who didn't easily die from lack of nourishment? If there was a true government sponsored policy of extermination, why leave the barely-living starved alive? In short, it all boils down to: how could the great majority...one million out of less than one and a half million... have survived?

These are the figures of the amount of Armenian people living in the Ottoman empire back then.



And below are the sources they came from...

From Sam Weems' book, "ARMENIA: Secrets of a "Christian" Terrorist State." Looks like the Ottoman census is a good, reliable median figure. ("Lepsius" was a vicar and President of the German-Armenian society, with no sympathy for Turks; he added a quarter-million to the above figure in 1921; Patriarch Malachia Ormanian's figure is from the early 20th century, shortly before the war; the source is Esat Uras. In Kemal Cicek's "The Ottoman Armenians: The Question of Relocation and Immigration During WWI," there is a different Ormanian figure, from 1913: 1,915,651.) If around 1,300,000 Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire, it would be a little difficult to have "exterminated" 1,500,000 of them. This is the figure most often quoted by Armenians, regarding the victims of the "Genocide"... but it's not that uncommon to come across figures of two million, three million.... sometimes even "four millions."

How could they of killed 1.5 million Armenians when there were only around 1.5 million (max 2 million) Armenians there to begin with?!?!?!?

[pitsilos]

this is just it man, if Turkey doesnt think they have done it and if the world is soly acting up on the Armenian propaganda and lobys (just likee the GCs) then Turkey has already been put into a very unfair position, and IF Turkey has already suggested that the historians should investigate, what more do you want?! if France holds the right to punish anyone who denys the genocide without any real proof then so does Turkey hold the right to punish anyone who blames her for genocide without any proof, what is the differenec? because they are Turks and they MUST be dodgy?! what have you got to proove that Turkey is not open for investigations? you are so sure lets see you evidence....

here pitsilos just very briefly somethings i found with a quick search....


http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/20 ... 717af.html

http://www.armenian-genocide-lie.com/ar ... logue-call

http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,,1892412,00.html

http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=2048

http://www.bedribaykam.com/indexeng.php ... 21&arsiv=1

http://www.byegm.gov.tr/YAYINLARIMIZ/CH ... 2.HTM#%206

http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2005/ ... consistent

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=32837

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/c ... 0105.shtml

and finally just to refresh your memory on the case incase you have started to "forget" things...or maybe you just choose not to see because it suits your anti-turk views, and ofcourse DEFINATELY not brainwashed

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6045182.stm


so i would appreciate if you take the time to read it as i have taken the time to answer you and come back with evidence to support your claims...

shahmaran, i already said the french are in the wrong in shuting down freedom of speech.

now i just clicked on one link and read only one.
this one
http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,,1892412,00.html
now this article does not offer any proof or evidense at all, it only says less people were killed from a common cold.

i agree with tukey's stand on this one. france can't demand the high ground when it expects different from turkey.

are you sure you know what proof is mate. something directly out of the archives. have you got anything?

turkey doesn't need armenia to open the archives. she can do all that her self rather than go around kissing yanking ass mate. its embarrasing, when you claim you have archives and proof and you prefer to kiss ass instead.

pistilos your argument is geting weaker by the minute MATE, i see you have not taken the time to read anything and you are very happily spilling your ignorance one more time...so if it doesnt aggree with you its either PROPAGANDA or NOT WORTH READING or IGNORANCE or BULLSHIT FROM A YOUNG PERSON....nice

im sorry but you only read 1 and you still talk?! try the others they are all about different points, if you want something from the Ottoman archives them im sorry but i cant help you, however i still think this is more than what you had to offer as an "argument" and still have the face to desperately hold on to a few minor points you made which was hardly relevant...

Armenia does NOT allow the questioning of the genocide, as far as they are concerned IT HAS HAPPENED and anyone who doubts it can go to jail, as people have when they tried to investigate the case in Armenia, thats why they reject Turkeys offers for investigation by saying there is nothing to investigate, so either read the rest of the sites or just cut the crap MATE!

...oh and Americas self interest based stance on the matter hardly changes the truth, so Gul kissing US ass holds no weight for the actual truth of the genocide, those are just the typical greedy yanky assholes who are ready to do anything for a bit of oil...

good morning sunshine,

it was 2:00 am and i was finishing some deadlines. this forum is a side line for amusement. sorry i tried for the record but i couldn't even come close. needed to go to bed.

i picked that particular news article, because, i thought, being english it would have given me a short article to read.

I am going to try one more an make it simple for your shahmaran.

here we go.

i said france is wrong in trying to shut down freedom of speech, in a democracy, regardless of how wrong it is. people are not sheep, well with the exemption of the US , and are more than capable in making their own mind when evidence are shown. shutting down freedom of speech, firstly, have you got something to hide comes to mind, and secondly discourages finding facts.

in one sence what france is trying to do is not helluva different to what turkey is doing, except they are on the opposite scale. we can argue on this till the cows come home, but at the end of the day they are both wrong.

I still can't see, and a few clippings ain't gonna cut it, as to why turkey does't open her books encourage a debate within your own historians and present the facts to the world. now when you present facts, history to the world, it cannot be seen as propaganda, coz you are also presenting facts.

what we have today, is turkey not calling it a genocide and disputing the numbers. well my question is if the archives are shut, and turkey is inviding armenia to do it together, how on earth does turkey know if it was or wasn't a genocide and how many people died if the archives are still shut? or if she has proof why not present the facts from the archives? you said your self you haven't got any.

i have been consistant in what i am saying and so far you still don't see the point.

another point that baffles me is why go to the us and plead for a presidential veto for a non recognition when you got the answers? surely you must conceed doing so, you will pay for it ten fold. such actions can only question your credibility, you know this and i know this and the whole world knows this. I would say the concessions will go along these lines.
1...establishment for a kurdistan incl kirkuk
2...maybe the war with iran is already started, the planning at least, coz the yanks ain't gonna have a repeat of the last time.
what amazes me is that turkey would rather conceed to all these demands, well any demands, knowing this will come up again in a couple of years. similar to a crack junky.

all these logical reasons must raise suspicions as to why turkey ain't opening all those archives and presenting the evidence.

how can turkey deny the charges if she is not willing to present evidents. its call tried and guilty in absentia. you can scream all you want shahmaran but i am afraid world opinion ain't gonna change and you can sit there and scream unfair, while you know and i know turkey is doing shit to change world opinion.

open the archives, encourage healthy debates with your own historians, let the facts freely flow without intimidation and lets see what happens. such turkey in my book would mean an asset to the world.

now shahmaran is the above propaganda or have you got a new word for it.

...oh and Americas self interest based stance on the matter hardly changes the truth, so Gul kissing US ass holds no weight for the actual truth of the genocide, those are just the typical greedy yanky assholes who are ready to do anything for a bit of oil...

on the contrary shahmaran, let me ask you, if the genocide ain't true why would gul go all the way to the other side of the world to kiss ass and concede concessions? anything to hide perhaps?