Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

you are fucking kidding aren't yeah vp3 ? like the 22 hrs?

but don't worry one of these days i will go through and check your posts and i will posts the results. for all to see then we will see

Feel free to do what you wish

[pitsilos]

just remember the 22 marathon within 24 hrs

then you should change your name to abi, abi normal

[Viewpoint]

just remember the 22 marathon within 24 hrs

you call this normal? abi?

Sorry to blow your conspiracy theories out of the water but couldnt the computer just stay logged on

[pitsilos]

are you for real? computers don't clock posts, numerous vps do

now for sure this is a dumb vp

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

1. RoC is only authorizing the ports, to make it legal to use, so to be accepted by the international community. The TC's will run them, in accordance to the islands customs and immigration rules, as they stand right now. This may have to be changed, when a new Constitution is written. I do not see a problem here.

Putting it that way nor do I but are the GCs going to authorize ports without any control over the north states airports and sea ports? If the were inclined to do this then why all the fuss? and this is an issue they will ahve to agree to on day 1.
What do GCs think about this point? you are arguing on their behalf so you may be well of key unless you are GC which has crossed my mind once or twice.

2. I would want the "crossings" to be dismantled the same day as the Ports are open for business. The "Green Line" will dismantle over 10 years.

Agree

3. 5 years will be a good time to wait and draft a "SOUND" Federal Constitution. Hopefully, the first 5 years will build enough trust by both the communities to have a fair Constitution, rather than, try to get " as much as we can" can of mentality. A little waiting, will do all of us good, as not to rush into it. We have been without the 1960 Constitution for 44 years, so what's your rush.!!

What if in 5 years time and with our past track record we are unable to agree a "SOUND" Federal Consitution? what fall back plan would you suggest?

4. There won't be any Army, just Part- Time National Guards for both sides. Perhaps my interpretation of National Guards, is different from yours, so let me explain. National guards will have a regular jobs. Once they do their 6 weeks of "boot camp" training, they will lead civilian lives, except do a once a year 2-3 weeks of military training. These are also recalled in case of Natural Disasters or riots or other emergencies. You will need to have a trained personnel, when you need them on odd occasions. The rest of the time, they will have regular jobs. If I may quote a phrase by the Swiss, " Switzerland does not have a Full Time Army, because Switzerland is a Army". This is because, every male has to do their 3 weeks of military every year, for about 15 years, after completing their "boot camp".

Disagree with this part totally, we do not need an army if we are getting rid of Turkey in 10 years time as for national disasters we have can have trained men like we do in the north at the moment or something similar but no arms or soldiers full or part time. The GCs will have to accept having no army to protect them or us if we are to get rid of Turkeys guarantees and army.

5. As far as GC's electing any GC representative living in the "State of Turkish Cypriots", for the "State Legislator or senate" will have that right, as much as we would have in the "State of Greek Cypriots". The only difference is, the 20 representatives in the Government will be TC's and 80 GC's, no matter what the make up of the local government is for each State, in compliance with "Kifeas's Plan" on decision making, on Federal Level. Personally, I do not see a shift of many people moving to one side or the other, so I do not think, one should worry about being "assimilated" by their votes. And of course, if the rightful property owners who do not wish to move to their land, can do what they like with them, from selling to leasing their property to whom ever wants it. There won't be any restrictions, who can buy or sell property in either states.

So what you are saying is that the 20 reps from the North State can be GC and 20 TC reps 60 GC can be from the south state? So everyone would vote for their reps be he GC or TC but only the top 80 GC reps and top 20 TC reps would go forward to the decision making decision. Doesnt this raise the problem of GCs voting for GC reps in the north state and therefore not allowing an area representitive being a TC from the noerth state representing his community from an understanding of living with TCs. The TCs living in the south would be exposed to siding with the GCs on certain issues because the decision would not effect their state negative but the other state, I feel there is a risk here and the reps should originate from votes cast within the state. So for example if Ahmet got 1000 votes and resides in the north he will put ahead of Mustafa who got 2000 votes because he come form the south or even Yorgo who has 3000 votes resides in the north but the majority ofhis votes cameform the south. I may be confusing matters but I feel it a riask that shoud l be addressed.

6. I'll remind you again, watch how you use the word "you" and "us" in the same sentence when you're addressing me, regarding Cyprus. !! Strike two.!!

This is not an insult and if you argue otherwise Im sure you will upset your GC brothers but you are arguing their side of the issue not ours.

I'm sorry not to have had the time to make a complete analysis on the "security measures", but in short, we will be an independent country. Your and every one's security will come from each states Police force and National Guards, as well as the Federal Government. Once Turkey pulls all her troops at the end of 10 years, we should all be having a working Democracy with all the safety measures in place. Since we are all in the EU, and you would want more security, then we can ask the EU to provide the "extra security" to help you sleep at night. I honestly do not know, what extra security we would need. Turkey will be our neighbour to the North, and that's it. same goes for Greece, only to the West of us.

If there is no army on either side I can see a way forward but if any body is formed that can be used by either state then this for me means risk in which case I would want Turkeys guarantees over the North state until Turkey enters the EU.

Finally, the reasons I believe the RoC is not being helpful in helping the "TRNC" to open Ercan and Famagusta ports, is, they believe what I believe, and that is, once you get all the goodies, you will tell them to piss off. However, if the whole progress takes over 10 years, then TRUST will be built in that time period.

They have these goodies does that make them want to tell us to piss off, all I am saying all along is that both the north and south should be levelled out and sooner or later this will happen we cannot be held hostage for much longer, the EU are putting out the right signals and the "RoC" can sense this as they have already stated they are prepared to take legal action against the EU, the pressure will mount until a time when there is a break through thats when the TRNC will really tell the GCs to piss off as it was without their help they achieved what they wanted so is it better to work together and plan for a united Cyprus or let us fight for what we want?

VP,

1. I'm not a Greek Cypriot. I'm a Turkish Cypriot. I thought you would have learned that much over the last 10 months, since I have been on the Forum.

2. You don't want an Army, that's just fine by me. I was thinking more for the TC's, for wanting some security. So I guess, security is of no concern to the TC's, so in that case, lets get rid of all the armies from both sides, in the first year of 10 years re-unification process.

3. No, there won't be 20 GC representatives from the "North", or 20 TC's from the "South". There will be 20 TC's from the "North" and 80 Gc's representatives from the "South" in the 100 seat Federal representatives. You are getting the Federal Government 100 seats confused with the local State representatives, for each side, that may have very few GC's in the "North" and very few TC's in the "South", depending who will vote for them. My guess is, it will take many years, before we will see any TC's in the "South" or GC',s in the "North", voted for office, in the LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

4. I don't know what the RoC wants or not want. I'm giving you my version of how to "level the playing field" that you have been asking for. Why don't we propose this to them, and see what they would say. If they don't want partition to happen, or keep the present situation going as is, then such proposals need to come forward, to explore what possibilities are out there.

5. Lets hear from others, as to what they would propose.

[Kikapu]

kikapu you are a visionary and i congratulate you for it.

i take my hat off to you mate.

Pitsilos,

Thanks for your kind words. It's always easy to blame others for everything, so why not put some ideas forward, so this is what I've tried to do, to help the TC's bring about "levelling the playing field" and at the same time, bring about a Unification that would have 2 states, 1 Country, in the "United States of Cyprus".

[Kikapu]

abi, abi normal

Pitsilos,

Did you get the above quote from the movie "Young Frankenstein" by any chance.

[pitsilos]

werewolf?

there wolf

this was one hell of a movie, a classic

to be honest i didn't think anyone on this board would have picked it up, as it is such an old movie.

[Viewpoint]

are you for real? computers don't clock posts, numerous vps do

now for sure this is a dumb vp

Everyone can see who's playing the fool and clutching at straws, as I said before once your arguments have been eroded your start to divert the issue onto something really irrelevant. Sorry people can see right through what you are trying to do.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

1. I'm not a Greek Cypriot. I'm a Turkish Cypriot. I thought you would have learned that much over the last 10 months, since I have been on the Forum.

I cannot be sure 100% on this issue as you cannot be about me, we can only according to what people post.

2. You don't want an Army, that's just fine by me. I was thinking more for the TC's, for wanting some security. So I guess, security is of no concern to the TC's, so in that case, lets get rid of all the armies from both sides, in the first year of 10 years re-unification process.

What do we have to fear if there is no army? the GCs will not be able to attack us and we will not be able to attack them due to having no arms or forces to manipulate and direct at the other state.

3. No, there won't be 20 GC representatives from the "North", or 20 TC's from the "South". There will be 20 TC's from the "North" and 80 Gc's representatives from the "South" in the 100 seat Federal representatives. You are getting the Federal Government 100 seats confused with the local State representatives, for each side, that may have very few GC's in the "North" and very few TC's in the "South", depending who will vote for them. My guess is, it will take many years, before we will see any TC's in the "South" or GC',s in the "North", voted for office, in the LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

This is where I think the GC will have problems accepting that all the reps from the North are TCs as they have in the past argued this is discrimination and that if a GC resides in the North he to should have the right to be elected just like a TC.

4. I don't know what the RoC wants or not want. I'm giving you my version of how to "level the playing field" that you have been asking for. Why don't we propose this to them, and see what they would say. If they don't want partition to happen, or keep the present situation going as is, then such proposals need to come forward, to explore what possibilities are out there.

That's why we need a GC view as some of the suggestion like opening ports is something to which they object to 100%, in all honesty there is an element of we have all the goodies why the hell do we want to unite with the north, have you accounted for this attitude? A GC from Baf who is not a refugee or has no ties with the north does really want the boat rocked and will be against any solution. Id say this accounts for a large portion of the NO vote at the last referendum, the GC have what they want a GC state where they are in control and they do not have to share anything, the only problem is the refugees and wanting more land other than that they have what they want.

5. Lets hear from others, as to what they would propose.

OK lets hear from the GCs what they think of your proposals.