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TRNC----- the Home of Who exactly???

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby pitsilos » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:59 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
pitsilos wrote:@pyro

i was born in cyprus, so obviuosly i am a cypriot,

my wife is australian and both my daughters never beien to cyprus. could they be considered cypriot citizens?

the reason i ask is because my oldest wants an eu passport. is she eligible for one?

sorry re for asking all these questions when a quick call to the embassy can give all the info i need, but since the subject came up why not ask.

also how can you get a permanent exit visa?, the embassy here says it doesn't exist but i know people that the cypriot club says you can get one. they say apply and when you do, you get no responce from the embassy.


Pitsilos, no I think your daughters are no eligible.Please read my previous posts


thanks pyro,

but you mention in your post if one parent is a cypriot citizen. surely the roc must recognize me as a cypriot citizen otherwise they wouldn't require an exit visa from me.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:06 pm

Viewpoint wrote: We gave them permits and they have been here 33 years don't we count?

You have an influx of foreign nationals which boosted your population in the late 80s early 90s were they not Pontiac Greeks? I remember seeing this on the EU statistic pages.


You gave them permits illegally. Where else in the world would the Council of ministers give permits as many as the local population? If the settlers were some say max 10% of the TC population that could be digested. They are too many, sorry your politicians made a worse mess than ours.

How many years they ‘ve been living locally is totally irrelevant. Fyi a few months ago they discovered a Bulgarian woman with 3 children born and raised and going to school here. They smaggled in some 10 years ago. One of the daughters won an international competition of students and knew no other language than Greek. They packed them all and sent them away. It was really tragic, the story was on the news for 2-3 days
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:18 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Viewpoint wrote: We gave them permits and they have been here 33 years don't we count?

You have an influx of foreign nationals which boosted your population in the late 80s early 90s were they not Pontiac Greeks? I remember seeing this on the EU statistic pages.


You gave them permits illegally. Where else in the world would the Council of ministers give permits as many as the local population? If the settlers were some say max 10% of the TC population that could be digested. They are too many, sorry your politicians made a worse mess than ours.

How many years they ‘ve been living locally is totally irrelevant. Fyi a few months ago they discovered a Bulgarian woman with 3 children born and raised and going to school here. They smaggled in some 10 years ago. One of the daughters won an international competition of students and knew no other language than Greek. They packed them all and sent them away. It was really tragic, the story was on the news for 2-3 days


Is that right? these are humans we are talking about.

Although I agree with what you say in essence this is a problem we will have to resolve without forgetting we are talking about humans, people who have lived on the island for more than 20 30 years warrant being allowed to stay, their offspring without question but if settlers came less that 7 years ago then these should Be assessed and either given permits to stay or asked to leave.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:31 pm

VP,
According to the current RoC law they are not allowed CITIZENSHIP. If you see even the Anan Plan required the settlers to stay for 7 (?) more years before getting CITIZENSHIP.

Like I said your politiians made a worse mess than ours. Be aware that the settlers will be with YOU after a solution not with the GCs. They will live in YOUR Fed state (in case of Fed solution) or district area (in case of return to 1960 constitution) so it is you the TCs who will be affected mostly and have to wait for 2-3 generations to bring them to your standards...

And the humanitarian treatement on settlers can not be such that will override the rights of the local population i.e the GC refugees. If a settlers has to go for a refugee to return then the settler must go. Not the other way round.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:39 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:VP,
According to the current RoC law they are not allowed CITIZENSHIP. If you see even the Anan Plan required the settlers to stay for 7 (?) more years before getting CITIZENSHIP.

Like I said your politiians made a worse mess than ours. Be aware that the settlers will be with YOU after a solution not with the GCs. They will live in YOUR Fed state (in case of Fed solution) or district area (in case of return to 1960 constitution) so it is you the TCs who will be affected mostly and have to wait for 2-3 generations to bring them to your standards...

And the humanitarian treatement on settlers can not be such that will override the rights of the local population i.e the GC refugees. If a settlers has to go for a refugee to return then the settler must go. Not the other way round.


Pyro I really don't see this a big problem of course they will vacate GC property and be rehoused if they are eligible to stay why not apply the laws of the EU if they meet the criteria then they can stay but w e have to deal with them in a humane way, have you seen the number of Polish people in London, there foreigners choosing to live anywhere in the world within the law why cant these people be treated the same. You have problems with Pontiac's does this mean you should send them all home?
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:49 pm

I agree with you on that VP, however I don't know what the EU law says about this.

I was simply discussing the matter of CITIZENSHIP. I believe even if the settlers are allowed to stay they will not get citizenship unless some more years pass.

My personal opinion the more people we are in Cyprus the BETTER. I hope after a solution we become a total of 2 MILLION here. Good for the flow of money :wink: If you know what I mean. :lol:
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:58 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:I agree with you on that VP, however I don't know what the EU law says about this.

I was simply discussing the matter of CITIZENSHIP. I believe even if the settlers are allowed to stay they will not get citizenship unless some more years pass.

My personal opinion the more people we are in Cyprus the BETTER. I hope after a solution we become a total of 2 MILLION here. Good for the flow of money :wink: If you know what I mean. :lol:


As long as they stay your side of the border I want to live in a tranquil place without pollution and noise pretty much as it is today :wink: If I want people and noise I can go to Europe.
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Postby zan » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:22 pm

miltiades wrote:
zan wrote:
miltiades wrote:Zan Wrote:
""""Stop talking a load of rubbish man. We are not Chinese or any other foriegner. We are Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus that are not wanted on Cyprus as such. Every now and again you have a little gripe at Tpap but do nothing the get rid of the tyrant and still you recognise that he is that but want to lead us into his arms. WHY.""""

Zan , you are a Cypriot and you are wanted in Cyprus , those who do not want T/Cs are a tiny minority , all of us own Cyprus , as for TPap , he was elected Zan in a democratic election .


Which means that you like his policies against the TCs. We do not and will not. Some of you here have highlighted the changes needed to make the move comfortable but refuse even your own findings and go on about democracy. I hate to use the example but I will, Hitler was elected democratically. Democracy is not always right and to stand by it through thick and thin is a fools paradise. If you want to live by those rules then you have your own country in the south to do so. I personally am trying to improve on those principles in my own country but am being hampered from without and within. Again I state that you guys are running on empty and see only a united Cyprus and sod the consequences. I prefer to act more responsibly.


You are supposed to be a business man……If you want to attract customers you provide them with what they want not go out into the street with a stick and usher them in by force.


Zan , democracy is not perfect by any means but at least it has a sell by date on all products . It also means that the people are governed by people elected by the people. The alternative does not bear thinking.
What makes you make such a sweeping statement " you guys are running on empty and see only a united Cyprus and sod the consequences. I prefer to act more responsibly. """
Are we irresponsible by wanting our island united and our people as one , are we irresponsible by wanting our identity to be the Cypriot one above all else , is Bir and Kikapu irresponsible adults in their 50s and yet acting irresponsibly??
Give us a break Zan , I think VP has infected you too.



You see your selves as the village elders but I do not. Yes you are acting irresponsibly why else would you conveniently forget all the problems and want and want and want unification. The problems of partition are far less than the problems of unification but you choose to go the hard way. Responsible????
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:56 pm

@Birkibrisli: My pending reply

Birkibrisli wrote: Thanks for that response,Pyro. And I understand your concerns.Denktas had said something similar once. When reminded that more and more TCs were leaving he said something like "
Let them go,we have better Turks to replace them with".


I know.. Proves how much he cared for his own people.

wrote: Here is my logic: There are no more than 50-60 thousand real TCs left in the North. If by positive measures like you described RoC manages to attrack as many TCs to the Republic as there are in the TRNC(and this could easily happen over say 10 years,keeping in mind that the TC numbers will continue to fall in the North),than how could Turkey justify staying in Cyprus with her 40,000 troops? Imagine regular demonstrations in the Republic by tens of thousands of TCs and GCs together demanding that Turkey obeys international law and takes her troops and settlers home!
If RoC does nothing now,the real TC community will disappear by assimilation and attrition,and within 25 years you nwill have nobody in the North wanting reunification with the South. Taksim established permanently,end of story. And I will be turning in my grave in the arse end of the world,killing all those daisies trying to grow on top of me...


I totally agree. I described before why they are not doing it for the moment. It is obvious that all those TCs will be replaced by settlers.
But I don’t think the RoC has any other option given the fact the sooner or later the real TCs will be forced out of Cyprus by the settlers.

If I may add some comments on this. You know in 1974 very few TCs moved to the north. One year AFTER the Invasion there were 70,000 TCs in the north and 50,000 in the south.
We had this man Klerides as president and the TCs had Denktash. Klerides in my personal opinion was always a partitionist (btw he is the one who manufactured the Anan Plan behind our backs without even asking us). Well what did this idiot do in 1975? He met with Denktash and they agreed for "humanitarian" reasons to let those 50,000 TCs go to the north.!!! (this was the so called 3rd Vienna Agreement)

What the hell those humanitarian reasons were, nobody ever cared to verify if they were true or not, and to what extend they were such. It was said the TCs were afraid from the GC refugees taking revenge on them. But for one whole year after the invasion nobody touched any TCs living in the south. It was also said the males were all on the north because they joined the Invading Turkish forces, so we had separation of families. Question: ALL the males??? Another question: Why not the males come back and their security guaranteed by some treaty or something???
So my friend we lost as early as from 1975 the core of TCs who I have no doubt would be the prime example for other TCs to come back later….

Some after 1975 very few TCs stayed in the south mostly TMT wanted men. They had no other choice.. Those TCs are still living in the RoC areas and I dare say they all have high work positions.

In my opinion there is nothing much the RoC can do while the TCs are living in the occupied. All good will measures bounce on the matter of recognition. Even the measure to help the TCs by allowing them to cross for work, kicked back on us, because most TCs got jobs at construction sites where they have to suffer the treatment of the most illiterate and savage GC people.

So in a nutshell I would say:
Assuming the final scope of those who govern us in RoC is not to slowly "eat away" the TC properties left in the south, and assuming they do not want partition, then there is no other way to fight the occupation than take measures to bring the REAL TCs back to the RoC controlled areas, and help them as much as we can to prosper like the GCs. And then GCs and TCs fight together for the rights of ALL of us in our little island.
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Postby Kikapu » Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:06 pm

miltiades wrote:Are we irresponsible by wanting our island united and our people as one , are we irresponsible by wanting our identity to be the Cypriot one above all else , is Bir and Kikapu irresponsible adults in their 50s and yet acting irresponsibly?? .


Miltiades,

Listen, just for the record, I'm younger than Bir and you also, so does that make me more irresponsible or less irresponsible. :?: :?:

I can't figure out, which one is better and which one is worse. :!: :!: :!:

Actually, this was also meant to get the ladies attention , that I'm younger than both of you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Getting calls already. :D :D :D
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