Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

askimwos, I would certainly vote for that. However, what I have come to learn on this forum is that turksih cypriots are not willing to say no to turkey and reap the benefits of participation in a cypriot society and secondly they want to share the economic benefits that cyprus has to offer with not doing the right thing by greek cypriots.

there can be a solution tomorrow if they wished, but the real question are they allowed by mother turkey? are the turksih speaking cypriots ready to say we are cypriot we have an opprtunity to be economically better off, to save our culture, customs traditions and identity or do we want to continue to praise turkey for our isolation. the reality of cyprus is that there are more greek speaking cypriots and that will not change, the struggle for this nation is not about numbers but about finding and creating policies and social planning that makes cyprus a fair state for all to live regardless of their religious or linguistic backgrounds.


However the turkish speaking cypriots separate themeselves and create this notion of them and us with venomous beliefs about greek speaking cypriots that ave no validity in cyprus today. if only they stop and look for a moment that the numbers of them coming to wotrk evrryday are increasing and that none of them have been harmed by greek speaking cypriots they will then realise that we are the same and that the AP could be used as the basis to re-build our country and when i use the term our I include turkish speaking cypriots, when most of the turkish speaking cyp's get on this forum the only talk about separation and them and use attitude.

[Viewpoint]

askimwos

So Shahraman TCs dont care about the RoC passports, right?
What about all those thousands of TCs students that run from the first moment to issue RoC passports so as to not pay fees in UK niversities? I my self took several TC friends to the RoC High Commision in London to get them their RoC passport.
What about the thousands of TCs visiting hospitals in the south? I was reading an article yesterday saying thet out of the 40 babies in the intensive care unit for premature babies in Makario Hospital 16 are TCs. And what about the 10-15k of TCs that work in the south?

It is the GC administration that claim to represent all Cypriots so they are bound by law to issue passports, they cannot refuse them, they have to provide medical care for their citizens, can you imagine if they stopped these how they would look on the international stage.

The workers are cheap labour they could be any other race it doesnt really matter the TC workers are just filling a gap in the market, how many are company directors or social workers etc?

Dont forget that in the years after the invation several thousands of families had to live with just with one parent cause the men of the families went to the arabic countries to find work and send money back home. I used to seem my father just a couple of times every year from the age of 2 to 13. The same happened with all my nefews and nieces (8 families in all).

This is very sad and regrettable but circumstances have brought this upon us and we are now divided, people did what they had to in order to survive on both sides.

Are these enough? I would say no and I would like to see more happening, however, what you are asking for trnc to be recognise is a no go area for the RoC - this will just legalise what Turkey is trying to achieve.

If you want to bring TCs closer to the "RoC" and include them then more has to be done so they may slowly move away from Turkey but the current GC policy is the total opposite and TCs prefer Turkey today more than they have ever done.

I can understand the TCs fear of being dominated by the GCs, the fear of maybe losing their identity. That is why the majority of GCs accept a federation solution, and are prepared to share the island with TCs.

That why we said YES to the Annan plab a federal solution.

But again this is with TCs not Turkey and TCs need to understand this as well.

We do understand this but we have to feel you are genuine and sincere.

Sadly the TCs community have not managed yet to tell Turkey to get lost while the greatest majority of GCs have done this with Greece. The great majority of GCs consider Greece as a friendly country, maybe not any country but that's about it. No GC will allow to be dictated by Greece on any issue that concerns Cyprus

This is arguable but lets say you are right, you have only been able to do this through economic strength and non dependency on Greece.

The question is can the TCs compatriots do the same?

How can we when we are economically dependent on Turkey, you isolations ensure that this will not change.

Now as far as the oil is concerned I am not sure what the outcome of the whole issue is going to be. Turkey really can do very few things about it. Here you have got a RoC in the EU, Turkey trying to get into the EU, Turkey's economy not that strong to sustain the blow of a potential conflict, the potential oil findings being in the south coast and a number of big companies trying to get their hands on it (companies = foreign goverment decisions). Pretty tough for Turkey on this one.

I agree and I think Turkey si going the wrong way about this. As long as the oil is not in the north then they cannot object, we shoudl look for our own oil to support the TRNC economy.

I just hope that Tpap play it wisely for once and include TCs in the whole issue, and maybe create a fund to put say 20-25% of any gains that will be managed by a committe incuding TCs. The fund may be uded to develop the infrustructure in the North or be held until the problem is solved and be given to the TC federal statelet. How about this for a gesture of goodwill?

You know this will never happen, may if Tassos leaves office or dies but I will not hold my breath, if GCs are clever enough to find oil then they deserve it, I dont think they have to share it with us, we should find our own.

[Pyrpolizer]

The TCs are not cheap labour.
Cheap labour are the Sri-Lankas.

[Viewpoint]

The TCs are not cheap labour.
Cheap labour are the Sri-Lankas.

Do you know any TC laborers? Go ask them.

[askimwos]

viewpoint it seems that you have an answer to whatever argument is put in front of you, but let me say that all these remind me of the official line of the TC administration, are you by any chance a member of this?
You asked whether I know any TCs who are not cheap labourers, the answer is yes, quite a few actually, I know people that run small businesses alongside GCs, I know people that work in semigovernmental organisations, I know people that work in the university and colleges, I know people that work in municipalities, I also know people that trade goods from north to south and vice-versa.
What you said about cheap labour is not the case. The majority maybe in the building industry but again the wages for TCs are much higher than those of polish or sri lankans and are pretty much at the same level as those of the GCs doing equivalent jobs.
You say that you cannot tell Turkey to let go unless you are economically independent, that may be true but the biggest changes happen when the people and not the politicians take action.
Don't forget that the majority of GCs opposed the coup in 1974 and that the policy of distancing the RoC from Greece was one dictated on the politicians by the people in the years that followed 1974.
You say that the TCs voted yes to the annan plan and that proves that they want a federal solution and that the GCs don't want this - well let me say that the annan plan was mostly about securing Turkey's interests first and then those of the TCs. You know this better than I do. Bring a new plan that excludes the points regarding guarantor powers, troops staying on ithe sland, and Turkey having a say in all things that matter on foreing policy then be sure that the GCs will voted yes.

[humanist]

VP sometimes you susprise me and that is why I cannot stay mad at you. You (may be because deep down we are brothers/ sters). Thank you for acknowledging that the way Turkey has expressed it self on this matter is not a beneficial way to end conflict.

Secondly you touched on the isolation and that it has been devastating on the Turksih Speaking Cypriot population. I agree that it has. However, it is the only trump card that the RoC has to ensure that Greek Speaking refugee property and indeed the sovereignthy of cyprus remains in place, for this I do not faulter the RoC governement. I am sorry, but I really do not. I think the if Mr and Mrs Georgiou want their land back and want to live on their land they need to have the right to do so.

If Turksih Cypriots working in the south are being paid less than a worer of Greek Speaking background doing the same job then you are right it is unethical and unfair and thr RoC governemnt ought to rectify this.

In good will I also feel that Turkish Cypriot villages in the south ought to be renovated and the RoC ought to invite those legal owners to move back, thus freeing Greek Speaking Cypriot property in the north for those rightful owners to move back to their property.

You also mentioned about doing what we had to do to survive at the time, that is correct, sadly we all did. However we can also undo or rather change the situation and do what we can now do to live together again.

[pantheman]

i think if TRNC would be allowed to do its own thing, most people would not bother with the RoC passport at all...

But again this is with TCs not Turkey and TCs need to understand this as well. Sadly the TCs community have not managed yet to tell Turkey to get lost while the greatest majority of GCs have done so in an indirect way with the case of Greece. The great majority of GCs consider Greece as a friendly country, maybe not as any country in the world but that's about it. No GC will allow to be dictated by Greece on any issue that concerns Cyprus. The question is can the TCs compatriots do the same?
Now as far as the oil is concerned I am not sure what the outcome of the whole issue is going to be. Turkey really can do very few things about it. Here you have got a RoC in the EU, Turkey trying to get into the EU, Turkey's economy not that strong to sustain the blow of a potential conflict, the potential oil findings being in the south coast and a number of big companies trying to get their hands on it (companies = foreign goverment decisions). Pretty tough for Turkey on this one. I just hope that Tpap plays it wisely for once and include TCs in the whole issue, and maybe create a fund to put say 20-25% of any gains that will be managed by a committe incuding TCs. The fund may be used to develop the infrustructure in the north or be held until the problem is solved and then given to the TC federal statelet. How about this for a gesture of goodwill?

FYI,

the reason the TCs haven't said no to turkey is because their ain't many of them left. Turkey has flooded the illegal northern part with turkish settlers.

The TCs are a minority amonst their own, and they say they don't want to be the minority with the GC.

Of the 256,000 population in the illegal TRNC, i would say about 40 -50 K (probably very ambitious) are TCs , the others are illegally displaced people from mainland turkey. With all this illegality going on, do you honestly think you will get any justice from turkey? The TCs have no say, they may think they have,but they don't. Sadly for them they are isolated, not by the GCs, but by turkey itself.

To add to your list of benefits that the TCs received from the RoC (jack shit from turkey) is pension money to pensioners, even when no contributions are being made. If that is what you call isolation, then i'll have some of that anyday.

[zan]

firstly the trnc has no right, those turkish cypriots who wish to better themselves economically can move to the south as they are free to do so anytime they like. when the trnc stops violating the human rights of those people they forced out of their homes then perhaps the turkish speaking cypriots will have benefits to gain from being citizens of the united cyprus.

secondly in view of turkey's n trnc's current threats and their behaviour in the past couple of weeks , it may be in the interests of the greek speaking cypriots that we gat compensation on properties and let them have the north. the turkish cypriot population are proving to be more of a cost to cyprus than not. let them kindly give back their eu passports and citizen identity cards and let them go on their merry way.

Humanist

You have sorted out in your head what the refugees in the south should and should not get. Now! What are you offering me. My family escaped from Cyprus in 1964. We were driven out by a Greek lead coup. My father lost his land and his Cypriotness to these thugs. Giving back his land is one thing but what about the lost years. Do you think that he now wants to forget the day when he had to sneak his family out of his war torn home and go to another country with only a few pounds in his pocket. What does this whole affair owe him. What does this whole affair owe me. Until 1982 I had no real place to call my home. Now I have and I don't want to lose it. What are you going to offer me except a dream that will turn into a nightmare.

[shahmaran]

pantheman, what the hell are you on about? who the hell has been taking care of us for the past 30 years, the RoC?

askimwos, none of that would have been necessary if we were not isolated as such, what RoC is doing, altho it seems like help, is pretty much a continuation of Makarios's ideology, slowly slowly buying out the Turks one way or another, either to get them to join her or help them move out, in order to assimiliate them into allowing this to be a fully Greek island. Its not the first time they are doing this is it? so what, are we meant to forget that the past 50 years ever took place, and that the GCs have suddenly had a change of heart? what is it?

[askimwos]

zan, what a united cyprus can offer you?
Certainlty a new better life and a new dream for you and your formost for your children, with more freedom of speech, away from patronising motherlands and surely more prosperous. Without the isolation thing that is kept recycling in this forum.
Is it going to be tough at the beggining? Oh, sure its going to be tough but people have to have courage as things will get much better...don't forget that the economic burden will fall on the shoulders of GCs...doesn't it say anything to you that the majority of GCs in this forum believe in the solution even though they will have to pay the cost of funding the development of the north?
Don't forget that the RoC managed to house one third of its population after the invation and the loss of 70% of the island's economic resources, a United Cyprus will be in a much better position to solve any short term problems that are expected to arise. It only needs to be patient and believe in this dream.