Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

No Bir we are living in the here and now and why we keep referring to the 1960s is because all the GC propaganda says it was all our own doing. If you want to take the blame for something you did not do then I truly feel sorry for you. What we are now saying is if you want to forget that period then forget all of the periods and see where we are today. We are living apart and better off for it. We do not want to go back to any time in the past and for the good of all the island we need to move from today not go back 32 years to 1974 or to 1960. Going back to any period is not going to solve anything and it will in fact make things worse. Your nagging need for a united Cyprus is your only goal and commendable though it may seem is the wrong option.

I don’t know what Gc propaganda you are referring to, but I have no doubts as to what sort of propaganda you refer to brainwash youself.

If you take the average GC and TC man who paid the price during the past periods out of the equation, you will clearly see 2 objectives in Cyprus. On one hand the objective towards Enosis and on the other hand the objrective towards taksim. Both objectives resulted to the suffering of the TC people in the 60s, their packing up of almost half of them into enclaves under terrible conditions, and the rest into ghettos all over Cyprus. While the Enosis objective was abandoned after 1974, the objective of Taksim resulted to the ethnic cleansing of 180,000 GCs the death of 6000 and the rest of what we know from 1974 until today, but also the continuing isolation of TCs to their own illegal administration.

The time when you will be able to understand these realities, will be the time of your salvation. Certainly there is no way going back to the same conditions, but on the other hand there is no way to acknowledge, legalise and finalise the objective of taksim just because you are stuck on it, and you think that would solve the Cyprus problem.

Now thats the propaganda I was talking about......Thanks Pyro.

Zan,you either do not know what propaganda is,or you are losing the plot slowly. Where is the propaganda in Pyro's post? He has logically and calmly summed up the situation as he sees it,and gave you an opinion as to what he thinks might be a peaceful and lasting solution,and what would only make things worse...Where is the propaganda in that? That 180,000 GCs have been forced out of their homes? That 6000 GCs (and God knows how many TCs and Turkish soldiers) have died in 1974? Where is the propaganda for God's sake?

[zan]

No Bir we are living in the here and now and why we keep referring to the 1960s is because all the GC propaganda says it was all our own doing. If you want to take the blame for something you did not do then I truly feel sorry for you. What we are now saying is if you want to forget that period then forget all of the periods and see where we are today. We are living apart and better off for it. We do not want to go back to any time in the past and for the good of all the island we need to move from today not go back 32 years to 1974 or to 1960. Going back to any period is not going to solve anything and it will in fact make things worse. Your nagging need for a united Cyprus is your only goal and commendable though it may seem is the wrong option.

I don’t know what Gc propaganda you are referring to, but I have no doubts as to what sort of propaganda you refer to brainwash youself.

If you take the average GC and TC man who paid the price during the past periods out of the equation, you will clearly see 2 objectives in Cyprus. On one hand the objective towards Enosis and on the other hand the objrective towards taksim. Both objectives resulted to the suffering of the TC people in the 60s, their packing up of almost half of them into enclaves under terrible conditions, and the rest into ghettos all over Cyprus. While the Enosis objective was abandoned after 1974, the objective of Taksim resulted to the ethnic cleansing of 180,000 GCs the death of 6000 and the rest of what we know from 1974 until today, but also the continuing isolation of TCs to their own illegal administration.

The time when you will be able to understand these realities, will be the time of your salvation. Certainly there is no way going back to the same conditions, but on the other hand there is no way to acknowledge, legalise and finalise the objective of taksim just because you are stuck on it, and you think that would solve the Cyprus problem.

Now thats the propaganda I was talking about......Thanks Pyro.

Zan,you either do not know what propaganda is,or you are losing the plot slowly. Where is the propaganda in Pyro's post? He has logically and calmly summed up the situation as he sees it,and gave you an opinion as to what he thinks might be a peaceful and lasting solution,and what would only make things worse...Where is the propaganda in that? That 180,000 GCs have been forced out of their homes? That 6000 GCs (and God knows how many TCs and Turkish soldiers) have died in 1974? Where is the propaganda for God's sake?

Who was it that was saying that we should stop living in the past and stop going on about the 60s. Your double standards are what is making the situation worse. The propaganda that comes up time and time again is this sort of shit that tries to outmanoeuvre the events of the 60s and up to 1974.

[shahmaran]

i think it is because Pyr is missing out on the point that Enosis ended BECAUSE of Taksim, and BECAUSE of the Turkish invasion which didnt only help the TCs but also saved the GCs from their own, the invasion was necessary, otherwise who was going to save the TCs from their decade long misery?

And lets not forget that in a proportiante level many TCs also lost their homes along with the GCs, but when the GCs only push one side of the story worldwide and try to blame the whole thing on the Turks, THEN it becomes propaganda...

[zan]

i think it is because Pyr is missing out on the point that Enosis ended BECAUSE of Taksim, and BECAUSE of the Turkish invasion which didnt only help the TCs but also saved the GCs from their own, the invasion was necessary, otherwise who was going to save the TCs from their decade long misery?

And lets not forget that in a proportiante level many TCs also lost their homes along with the GCs, but when the GCs only push one side of the story worldwide and try to blame the whole thing on the Turks, THEN it becomes propaganda...

Where is that Kikapu when you need him. He said that he would attack propaganda where ever he sees it. Kikapu ATTACK!!!!!!!!!

[BirKibrisli]

i think it is because Pyr is missing out on the point that Enosis ended BECAUSE of Taksim, and BECAUSE of the Turkish invasion which didnt only help the TCs but also saved the GCs from their own, the invasion was necessary, otherwise who was going to save the TCs from their decade long misery?

And lets not forget that in a proportiante level many TCs also lost their homes along with the GCs, but when the GCs only push one side of the story worldwide and try to blame the whole thing on the Turks, THEN it becomes propaganda...

But I still don't see any propaganda or double standards,you guys...

Pyro was balanced in his opinion.He admitted that both sides made mistakes.Bot sides suffered.Now it is time to heal the wounds. Where is the propaganda?

[Viewpoint]

Let me give you some more details:

The number of TRNC "citizens" are reportedly 133,937.
No information on how many of these are real TCs...

People with TRNC plus another citizenship reportedly 42,795.
I am confused as to who these people are...Perhaps people with foreign passports living in the TRNC???

People with both TRNC and Turkish citizenship reportedly 33,870

So given that de-jure population is supposedly 256,644 there are 46,042 people who are not TRNC citizens.Are these the settlers who have work permits? Or soldiers? or students?

Whichever way we look at it the number of real TCs are no more than 50% of the total population,by Ferdi Soyer's admission apparently...
So,Viewpoint...is there another state in the world where the noncitizens are equal to the citizens???

So what you are saying is that those with dual citizenship are not TCs, great thinking Birkopolous.

[Viewpoint]

i still dont understand how it is possible to separate my Cypriotness from my Turkishness, how do you do it?

maybe i would have to live abroad my whole life?

I'll tell you how you put your Cypriotness first,Shah.

You see Cyprus as your motherland. It has given you birth,it is your mother (unless of course you were born in Turkey). Your first aliegance is to Cyprus. You always thing of what is best for Cyprus and all Cypriots.

You don't see GCs as your enemy. They are your flesh and blood.You share their genes.You are one people,one nation. You want to live with them,not side by side but together.

You won't be afraid that you will be assimilated into the GC culture.You know you already have been largely assimilated for the simple reason of living with them for hundreds of years.And in the same way they have been largely assimilated into the TC culture. You know you are more like the GCs in all cultural aspects,expect language and religion.And you know that because you speak a different language primarily (because a lot of words and concepts are the same-some originating from Turkish and some from Greek) and believe in a different religion,you will always maintain some degree of Turkishness and uniqueness. Your language and religion are your guarantees that you will never fully assimilate into the GC society,so there is no need to worry.

What do you think so far? Shall I go on or am I flogging a dead horse as far as you are concerned???

Birkoplous you are a lost soul in a sea of naivity telling TCs not to be afraid of assimiltaing with Greek Cypriots, why didnt you do this when it was your time while riding bareback on donkeys, you could have now be the proud Yiannos Birkoplous in a GC state with your GC brothers but hey dont worry you can still go live with them and assimilate all you want, why dont you? and leave us alone to assimilate with whom ever we wish, surely we have that right or are you denying us that freedom as well.

[Pyrpolizer]

try to blame the whole thing on the Turks, THEN it becomes propaganda...

Where have I tried to put the whole blame on the Turks? In fact if you notice I clearly took out of the equation the average TC and GC. Do some search to find out what taksim was. If you find any difference to what taksim was and what we have today, then tell me.

For some people whatever is not fully in line with what they used to brainwash themselves is propaganda.



@Viewpoint

Why are you calling Birkibrisli names? Where has he ever called you any name, or even insulted you?
If I jump in you will not like it.

[Pyrpolizer]

Where is that Kikapu when you need him. He said that he would attack propaganda where ever he sees it. Kikapu ATTACK!!!!!!!!!

I have absolutely no problem for Kikapu evaluating my post and tell me if that was a propaganda or not. The same goes for all other persons in this forum who are neutral.

[zan]

try to blame the whole thing on the Turks, THEN it becomes propaganda...

Where have I tried to put the whole blame on the Turks? In fact if you notice I clearly took out of the equation the average TC and GC. Do some search to find out what taksim was. If you find any difference to what taksim was and what we have today, then tell me.

For some people whatever is not fully in line with what they used to brainwash themselves is propaganda.



@Viewpoint

Why are you calling Birkibrisli names? Where has he ever called you any name, or even insulted you?
If I jump in you will not like it.

What we are telling you and you don't seem to get is that we are ok with Taksim if the alternative is losing everything to becoming a Greek. I have nothing against my Greek cousins but I am not one. Can you get that into your head or are there still the soap suds of your brainwashing still floating around.


The real situation is that we are trying to form a Republic.....Sorry we HAVE formed a republic and that is the TRNC/KKTC and we would like to have a friendly relationship with Turkey and the RoC and your mothership Greece. It is you that is still talking about hostilities not us.