Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

What about the refugees BOF....return or no return........

Zan,

Don't you think, unless the right of returns are established to all the displaced people, GC's and TC's, at what ever the maximum amount, that will be, we are likely to have a long lasting unresolved situation, much like the Israel - Palestinian situation. Even if people do not want to move anywhere from where they are now, their properties should be returned to them, unconditionally, and let them decide to move there, sell, or rent out their properties to whom ever they want to.

Lena and Kikapu

Yes I believe that should happen but no I don't believe it can. The problem with Palestine is that their own people and government don't want to move on. If their own government were to start saying to these people lets just get on with our lives and the Jewish people are here to stay perhaps a more amicable treaty can be achieved but there are people that still want every single Jew out of Israel how can they ever achieve that. We now have a situation in Cyprus that will cause massive upheaval and further heartache if the refugees were allowed to return. The end result is fine but the road there is horrendous. Add to that the TCs problem of self-determination and you have an impassable wall. I believe most people want money and they are asking for too much. The main problem with the RoC is that they do not want to foot the bill and neither do any of the other parties involved so the blame game starts. This give the people the choice and the right to return is again more government retrace because who ever gives in to that is then admitting guilt and will also foot the bill. These are games played by the big boys and we the little people are stuck in the middle. All parties should foot the bill, pay these people their money and let them get on with their lives. I guarantee you that if people were honest they would say that that is what they want and it is the feeling of looking greedy that they even contemplate another solution. I am now going to get a hand full of people saying they want to return but it is going to be just that, a hand full of people.

[Kikapu]

What about the refugees BOF....return or no return........

Zan,

Don't you think, unless the right of returns are established to all the displaced people, GC's and TC's, at what ever the maximum amount, that will be, we are likely to have a long lasting unresolved situation, much like the Israel - Palestinian situation. Even if people do not want to move anywhere from where they are now, their properties should be returned to them, unconditionally, and let them decide to move there, sell, or rent out their properties to whom ever they want to.

Lena and Kikapu

Yes I believe that should happen but no I don't believe it can. The problem with Palestine is that their own people and government don't want to move on. If their own government were to start saying to these people lets just get on with our lives and the Jewish people are here to stay perhaps a more amicable treaty can be achieved but there are people that still want every single Jew out of Israel how can they ever achieve that. We now have a situation in Cyprus that will cause massive upheaval and further heartache if the refugees were allowed to return. The end result is fine but the road there is horrendous. Add to that the TCs problem of self-determination and you have an impassable wall. I believe most people want money and they are asking for too much. The main problem with the RoC is that they do not want to foot the bill and neither do any of the other parties involved so the blame game starts. This give the people the choice and the right to return is again more government retrace because who ever gives in to that is then admitting guilt and will also foot the bill. These are games played by the big boys and we the little people are stuck in the middle. All parties should foot the bill, pay these people their money and let them get on with their lives. I guarantee you that if people were honest they would say that that is what they want and it is the feeling of looking greedy that they even contemplate another solution. I am now going to get a hand full of people saying they want to return but it is going to be just that, a hand full of people.

I'll answer this another time Zan.
You are making it sound way to easy as to what people ought to do.
I need to go. Bye.

[LENA]

Lena and Kikapu

Yes I believe that should happen but no I don't believe it can. The problem with Palestine is that their own people and government don't want to move on. If their own government were to start saying to these people lets just get on with our lives and the Jewish people are here to stay perhaps a more amicable treaty can be achieved but there are people that still want every single Jew out of Israel how can they ever achieve that. We now have a situation in Cyprus that will cause massive upheaval and further heartache if the refugees were allowed to return. The end result is fine but the road there is horrendous. Add to that the TCs problem of self-determination and you have an impassable wall. I believe most people want money and they are asking for too much. The main problem with the RoC is that they do not want to foot the bill and neither do any of the other parties involved so the blame game starts. This give the people the choice and the right to return is again more government retrace because who ever gives in to that is then admitting guilt and will also foot the bill. These are games played by the big boys and we the little people are stuck in the middle. All parties should foot the bill, pay these people their money and let them get on with their lives. I guarantee you that if people were honest they would say that that is what they want and it is the feeling of looking greedy that they even contemplate another solution. I am now going to get a hand full of people saying they want to return but it is going to be just that, a hand full of people.

Zan, I am not going to start telling you about all those people that they lost their properties, they had to start from the begging, they suffered, they survived in the poverty….I don’t want to be dramatic here. We all know the facts from 1974.

I will tell you what I heard or saw the last few years from the GC part. I heard about people that they want to go back, they said that they will give everything back if only they could live the rest of their lives at the place that they was born. They want to die there and be buried next to their families grave.
On the other hand, I heard from people that they want to continue their lives as it is now. They don’t want to go back or take anything back. They don’t want their properties…properties that TCs or Turks live in…and they don’t even care about any money.
But in the third group are people who are not willing to give anything from their properties. They fixed their lives now but they are not able to forgive or forgot the past. They want their properties back or they want the money that the government had promised to them if they give up from their properties.

But I agree with Kikapu...its not an easy thing. And I am not the best person to answer your question. I didnt live then...I only know the facts from school, stories etc

[Pyrpolizer]

I am sorry Lena, but I believe your view is superficial. All you have to do to face the reality is just go one day at the office of the the tax officer dealing with inherited properties. A father dies and you will see brother ready to kill the sister for the share of the property and money.

The refugees who don’t care about what they left behind are really very few.

As for the matter of return: Tell the GCs that only a few can return and then you will see everybody registering his name down that he wants to return. In my opinion any agreement that would dare set down percentages will be in trouble.
On the other hand if everyone is free to return, then I guarantee you not even 15 % they will finally do so.

@Zan,

If we were to forget the whole thing and go on with our lives just because a solution would bring unrest, then there wouldn’t be a Cyprus problem would it? The fact is there is, and each side defines with very specific parameters.

Your whole argumentation is similar to:
"One day we will die, and we will surely take nothing with us down the grave. So lets start trowing our PCs out of the window, lets give everything to the poor, and let's commit suicide to get it over"

[LENA]

I am sorry Lena, but I believe your view is superficial. All you have to do to face the reality is just go one day at the office of the the tax officer dealing with inherited properties. A father dies and you will see brother ready to kill the sister for the share of the property and money.

The refugees who don’t care about what they left behind are really very few.

As for the matter of return: Tell the GCs that only a few can return and then you will see everybody registering his name down that he wants to return. In my opinion any agreement that would dare set down percentages will be in trouble.
On the other hand if everyone is free to return, then I guarantee you not even 15 % they will finally do so.

@Zan,

If we were to forget the whole thing and go on with our lives just because a solution would bring unrest, then there wouldn’t be a Cyprus problem would it? The fact is there is, and each side defines with very specific parameters.

Your whole argumentation is similar to:
"One day we will die, and we will surely take nothing with us down the grave. So lets start trowing our PCs out of the window, lets give everything to the poor, and let's commit suicide to get it over"

Pyro you are right. I know that the 2 groups represent a very small % of the refigeees but I said only what I know and what exist. I know that most of the refugees they want money and just money!!! They was the first ones that they cross the borders...and I know that few of them that they saw a villa in their properties they want the properties back...not because they love that place but in their eyes the symbol of the £ was shinning.
But I said it’s not the easiest thing to sort out!!!

[fanourıo]

recent investigation within the Greek Cypriot Ministry of Interior showed that they are not so willing to return... Not all anyway.

[fanourıo]

BOF you can buy Cyprus Times Saturday, your post is going to the Press!

[zan]

Guys, I did not say it was going to be easy. What I said was, it is going to be MUCH easier than the alternative. People will still get upset and heartache but it will be much much less. We are on damage limitation here and if we are looking at it in a democratic sense, then the minority will be causing great hardship to the majority. If there are going to be so few that actually want to go back then they are the minority. I am not dismissing them lightly. They matter very much but so do the ones that are going to go through even more hardship.

[BOF]

BOF you can buy Cyprus Times Saturday, your post is going to the Press!

Thanks fanos i wish i could but im in the UK and wont be coming to cyprus till march 3 ..can you put a copy by for me please ?? i would appreciate that
footnote...however if its in greek or turkish i couldnt read it anyway.....

[fanourıo]

Cyprus Times is issued in English, i will keep a copy for you.