Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

Would you be content with a Senate Equality that is not permanent? Would other TCs also feel the same way?

If all you need is a temporary derogation, I am sure that is not too difficult to arrange ... and if you want something more secure, it can be a derogation that will be put to referendum of the TC community 15 years from now, and then every 15 years after that, until they freely decide to abolish it ...

Temporary deroagtions are not acceptable for me right now under my current mindset and distrust to GCs.

But again, remember. Thee reason that I am not insisting on permament derogations, is not that I would not prefer tham. But I just simply believe that they are not legal not only in EU but also in ECHR as well, so they simply are not feasible to be implemented.

I mean even if the permanent deriogation is accepted by EU courts they will be turned from ECHR courts, unless we specify the law the way I defined it, by giving dual citizenship.

Because it is against "human rights" giving a person full citizenship rights but later on restrict their involvement in political participation. The only way you can do that is by saying that this guy is already using its human rights in the other state because he has dual citizenship.

But having said that, I also believe that if we can live together for 30 years without an incident, then we may essentailly start trusting each other, and may be feel secure that we will not be dominted by the GCs against our consent, so that derogations can be lifted.

It is kind of 'catch 22'. If we can live together enough we can trust each other and don't need permamanet derogations, but we can not live together long enough without those derogations.

Anyway that is my take on things,

[brother]

Hey alex, thats right ay sergis

[MicAtCyp]

Non acceptable ones are: 8

If I were you I would be ashamed to even open my mouth and say this. This is the hardcore of the Cyprus problem man, the disposal and stealing of GC properties and you come here and tell us you will not accept the GC refugees to regain more that 1/3 of their properties? And you want to get in Europe with that?

All those explanations you gave is just bullshit to me. You left plynth made houses they collapsed, thats your problem not ours.You got 3 times as many modern houses you would never have dreamt of, they are rubbish today but we do want them anyway, to burn them down and built much better ones.
Mind you, properties do not just mean a house.For every house there were 10-20 times empty privately owned lands. How about those 10-20 times privately owned empty lands of ours?
What are your excuses for having to donate them to you as well ? It will be fun hearing you once more....
Oh, I know, you donated them to your settlers. Well thats too bad!

[turkcyp]

If I were you I would be ashamed to even open my mouth and say this. This is the hardcore of the Cyprus problem man, the disposal and stealing of GC properties and you come here and tell us you will not accept the GC refugees to regain more that 1/3 of their properties? And you want to get in Europe with that?

All those explanations you gave is just bullshit to me. You left plynth made houses they collapsed, thats your problem not ours.You got 3 times as many modern houses you would never have dreamt of, they are rubbish today but we do want them anyway, to burn them down and built much better ones.
Mind you, properties do not just mean a house.For every house there were 10-20 times empty privately owned lands. How about those 10-20 times privately owned empty lands of ours?
What are your excuses for having to donate them to you as well ? It will be fun hearing you once more....
Oh, I know, you donated them to your settlers. Well thats too bad!

Hey man. Remember we are thieves. We steal stuff. You want me to say it again, cause I am not ashhamed.

Get over it.

p.s. 1: I respond to the posts the way they deserve. Alexandros, asked properly and in a civilized manner, my ideas and I provided them in civility. You give a post like that, so you get a post like this.

p.s. 2: Alexandros, I have not forgotten to reply to your question about property issue. Bear with me. Take care.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Hey alex, thats right ay sergis

Wow, this is excellent ...

My family name at Ay Sergis ( ie my father's mother surname) was "Pougiouros" ... ask your parents/grandparents/whatever ...

See if they remember my family ...

[Alexandros Lordos]

Turkcyp,

I thought to write another post to cover all remaining issues from your original post ...

- Demilitarisation: It may sound like a good idea at first, but is it really secure enough? What if a third country decides to invade Cyprus? Won't we be sitting ducks? And what if para-military groups spring up, aiming at intercommunal violence and/or partition? Who will stop them? Simple police wouldn't be able to do it, neither could a UN Force (UN troops are purely decorative, like flower pots in the garden ... )

So I think that there should be an army of Cyprus, but it has to be integrated, a single army for the whole island which could include contingents from Greece and contingents from Turkey (and from other countries also, and Cypriots also) but all under one common command, and with a common mandate to protect the whole of Cyprus as well as both constituent states ... two separate armies (as it is now in the Annan Plan) just prepares the ground for future partition ...

-Turkish Guarantees: I am prepared to consider a limited role for Turkish intervention rights, so long as they are limited to the TC constituent state, and so long as the triggers for intervention are clearly defined and limited in the treaty. (eg. risk of genocide, attempted military domination by GCs of the TC constituent state) But to have Turkey "guaranteeing the constitution in its entirety", and to have the right to intervene as far in as Paphos ... no, I would not feel safe with that.

OK, I'll take a break here to give you the chance to respond ...

Have a nice day

[brother]

Alex i will do that.

[erolz]

Turkcyp,

- Demilitarisation: It may sound like a good idea at first, but is it really secure enough? What if a third country decides to invade Cyprus? Won't we be sitting ducks?

No we will no be sitting ducks because we have an army here (the british army - supported by the USA and NATO) which we don not even have to pay for. We need no national (or community) army for security.

And what if para-military groups spring up, aiming at intercommunal violence and/or partition? Who will stop them? Simple police wouldn't be able to do it, neither could a UN Force (UN troops are purely decorative, like flower pots in the garden ... )

That is down to us. We should get all unreisgered arms out of Cyprus - that would be the first limit on any para miltary forces that try and disrupt a untied Cyprus. We should also have sever penalties for people tryig to bring arms into cyprsu illegaly and for those that seek to use violence. I do not beleive you need an army to stop para miltary extremeists. What I beleiev you need is a population and government that will not tolerate such groups to stop them.

-Turkish Guarantees: I am prepared to consider a limited role for Turkish intervention rights, so long as they are limited to the TC constituent state, and so long as the triggers for intervention are clearly defined and limited in the treaty. (eg. risk of genocide, attempted military domination by GCs of the TC constituent state) But to have Turkey "guaranteeing the constitution in its entirety", and to have the right to intervene as far in as Paphos ... no, I would not feel safe with that.

OK, I'll take a break here to give you the chance to respond ...

Have a nice day

Such linmited gurantees would be sufficent to allay my concerns for the TC community.

Oh and thanks again Lordos for your continued constructive contributions to this forum.

[MicAtCyp]

Hey man. Remember we are thieves. We steal stuff. You want me to say it again, cause I am not ashhamed.

Hey thanks man. That explains it all, no need to continue.

[turkcyp]

Hey thanks man. That explains it all, no need to continue.

Good. At least I will not waste my time explaining myself to somebody who does not want to listen or understand. Those who know how to communicate in a civilized manner deserve my time much more than you.