Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

shouldn't the thieves stop profitering?

for a so called government that made a platform on unification, you sure as hell have a weird way of showing it.

Lift the isolation allowing us to develop other areas.

[zan]

you misssed the point zan. as you said when a solution is found you will claim it.

in other words it will always be yours, no matter what.

but can we say the same to all the people that not only can't go to their houses, but the houses have been sold.

i guess it wouldn't be painful if tcs lived in them, but sold to foreigners?

you can see how this action brings resentment don' you?

If there is unification then and only then will we get our property back and then the refugees will also return. As to their houses being soldhow about this forums answer to that problem.


http://www.cyprusforum.com/

[zan]

well witha cheeky smile on my face i say this, your sisters can stay if that is the case but as in life you cannot have your cake and eat it.... they stay where they are and allow the Greek Speaking Cypriots to live where they weant too. may be they need to stop seeing themeselves as Turkish speaking Cypriots living among Greek Speaking Cyprios but rather people living with people.

I get your point but I still see that as breaking the cup to get to the tea. The tea is already in the cup, lets just sip the contents.

[humanist]

I don't understand?

anyway Zan, lets say there was a solution and your sisters stayed provided they are the legal owner of property there would not be as many Greek Speaking returning so at that point either the Greek Speaking Cyp's are compensated or those currently living in their properties can negotiate a fair price for the exchnage of property. That way those people are given the right to do as they please ie. sell where there is already a byer and tenant.

Now are you not enjoying the tea?

But how about this solution, two states north / south green purple. current land mass and including Varosha in the north/ green state 30% of parliament Turkish Speaking Cyp's, rest whatever Greek Speaking/ Maronite etc, same with south state so that the cyp's who move to the south (and lets face its a long way from Varosha to paphos if thats where you scored a job), and a federal government of 70% - 30%.

buffer zone becomes a peace park for all Cypriots, those who have property within that, are compensated as are those Cyp's whose property was confiscated for public works and government departments for the use and benefit all Cypriots ie Larnaka airport.

[zan]

Humanist

I understand what you are saying but what I am trying to get you to think about is the logistics of it all. Do you understand how many people we are talking about and how many things that can go wrong. How many people will claim the same property. When the first crossing was opened I read many times that mare than one GC family turned up at particular house and took pictures saying it was their home. My sisters’ friend, before my eldest sister moved back for good, had to finally refuse to let people in to take photos of the inside. These things are a reality. I don't want to always sound negative about this but all I can see is chaos.



On a positive note about your national peace park, my wife and I got married in Indonesia and we had to stop off on Java to get the licence. While we were there we went to a special park that was built to help unite the people. There were many parts to this park and each part was dedicated to one of the islands to show the cultures and style of each. The school children had to visit this park at least once a year as part of the curriculum. I thought at the time what a great idea this was so it could be incorporated into your park idea.

[humanist]

I love that idea, about having school children visit every year, perhaps along the 180kms in Cyprus there could be various themes, for example I would suggest that in Nicosia the buildings are restored and maintained as a live museum where children and indeed people can see it as it was, in more rural areas perhaps there could be forests planted, in more urban places there could be rose gradens etc etc.

My friend Zan, I hear what you are saying about logistics, and you have presented a very good and valid argument or should we say proposition because argument suggests a fight. Though I hear your sister's friend's situation and whilst I do not wish to dicredit it, it was one of the very few perhaps? Perhaps it was not investigated as to why this happened, was it that it was an ancestral home and the children now in their old age also turned up, was it other family members of people living overseas wanting to take pics for their loved ones? etc

Anyway there is order in chaos sometimes (but do you really think there is no chaos in British society, perhaps of a different kind?) as a spiritual teacher ones told me.

However, where there is will and respect there is a way. My advice to the leadership on both sides is to start now with a register of those people who will return to their properties to live, and those who would like compensation and those who would like to sell ( I believe there is a fundamental difference in compensation for confiscated property and selling of that property once it is restored). Then at least there can be some idea, about numbers of people firstly returning, and secondly an idea is gotten on the number of people who will need re-housing and accommodation priority given to Turkish Speaking Cypriots.

I am sure that a lot og Greek Speaking Refugees who immigrated to Australia would most likely NOT return. To this end they can express an interest in whether they want market value compensation or whether they sell within a couple of years a fair time line need be given. Same with those people who live in Cyprus, who may not wish to give up their current dwellings to move north because they re-settled and have established lives in the south/ north respectively. Similarly for Tukish Speaking Cypriots migrants they need to be consulted about their properties and perhaps they would be willing to sell or get compensated and this would allow more land for Turkish Speaking Cypriots and some settlers to find alternative accommodation.

You have pointed a valid point about various people turning up claiming to be their home, in that case a review board needs to be set up to look into these disputes. Whilst most Greek Speakers voted No for the AP and they did so on the property issue but also the fact that Turkey would continue to have military presense on the Island and then you could argue if Turkey does that what about Greece should Greece do the same in order to protect Greek Cypriots from the Turkish army and pottential threat. So to this end lets scrap military service for Cyprus, if Switzerland can exist well why not have same rules applicable to Cyprus. Or if it does exists then it is one army made up of all Cypriots.

Touching on another issue, unfortunately people will have to be uprooted again on both sides. However, by setting up registers and expressions of interests would be the beginning to solving some of those issues. I would propose that the current refugee estates in the south be used as temporary housing for settlers until their fate is decided (so as Greek Speaking Cypriots move to the north to their properties) settlers move into the vacant accommodation in the south until they have been somehow processed and assisted in their transition. However I do believe that Turkey needs to take full responsibility for settlers. Whether it is financial responsibility to buy them apartments, give loans, compensate the Cypriot governement (that is made up of Greek/ Turkish Speaking Cyp's).

But really don't you think that solving this issue will lead to a higher level of society for cyprus and a civilised people that will be able to plough trough racial and religious issues and create a new modern world respected society. My friend I don't know about Turkish Speaking Cyp's but I assure you that each Turkish Speaking family who returns a property to their rightful owner will forever be indebted too by a Greek Speaker.

And then there is those British lecherous people like the pipsquids whose name I cannot bring to my lips, who illegally bought and have exploited refugee property and instead of taking the thieves who sold them the property to court to reclaim their loses , they took the innocent refugee to court instead.

Lastly you are right it is chaos that's why all you can see is that. However isn't he whole situation a bit chaotic? Isn't life a chaos? But the first question WE, all of us as Cypriots got to ask is what do we want for our country? once we have an answer I believe ther rest will be easy. If we want to unite for the right reasons then we as individuals would be willing to do whatever to achieve that, if they said we need volunteer social workers/ community development officers to assist with the integration of all Cypriot communities on the Island I would be more than happy to volunteer 2-3 years in Cyprus to assist with this. But that is because I want to see a United Cyprus where all people live together and if I learn Turksih in the process well then I have already benefited on a personal level. And instead of squabling about oil exploration lets Unite and embrace it and demand as a united people from our government that the profits of the first couple of years go into building our new society/ community. Housing for the disadvantaged, low rates for housing loans for the disadvantaged, schooling etc. I also strongly believe that for future generational benefits all children ought to be taught both languages at school along with customs and traditions of the Cypriot culture if nothing else to demystify the unknown, hence break the barriers. I think where Cyprus failed its people in the past it was the separation, separate schools, separate neighbourhoods etc, lets have one community one society three languages.

But I believe the key is willingness. And acceptance of the fact that some people will miss out on what they want. For example, if a Greek Speaking Cypriot refugee has passed away and there are five children in the family, well perhaps those siblings are given compensation for their parents home, especially if there is a Turksih Speaking Cypriot family living in the property. However any other property that would have been their inheritance ought to go back to them and that would include properties where Brit's or others have bought and built illegally. Perhaps once again commitees are set up to determine what compensation if any the Brit gets and who is held responsible for their loss. My personal view compensation but as far as who is held responsible tough luck you knew the situation you should have paid more attention. So in the case of that couple mentioned earlier they may be able to get some money back for the house if the rightful owner likes the plan and wants to live in it otherwise knock it down and bad luck.

And as unfair and unjust this may sound I do believe that the brits who illegally own property come last on the list of priorities and and settlers to a lesser degree (that is given more priority or higher priority than the Brit's)