Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

so what you are ever so eloquenty suggesting is that, if Turkey hadnt intervened it would all have been sweet and dandy, and we would all have gone back to our lives and lived happily ever after?

Shah, I am not the one in here who says what would happen as if they see everything in a crystal ball. The truth is
1)not even one TC was killed 5 years before the Invasion
2)Not even one TC was hurt during the coup and upto 30 days after the Invasion.

So you cannot justify the Turkish Invasion without having proof that the TCs were in fact attacked. It’s like saying "I will kill you because I think you will kill me" Without me even touching you.

As for why the life of the TCs was bad, and nothing was rosy for them all you have to do is what caused it. Look at my replies to VP.

[BirKibrisli]

I do not subscribe to your counterpoints at all BK. Can you tell me what percentage of the TC community in Aussieland you represent? I have friends that have moved back after a long spell in Australia and they certainly have no resemblance to you at all.

I never said I represented anyone but myself.

I have no idea what persentage of TCs share my ideas,and frankly I don't give a damn.

But it is good to know that at least one other TC in this form has ideas similar to mine.

To borrow a phrase from showbiz "Not everthing that is good is popular,and not everthing which is popular good"

[Pyrpolizer]

If I know VP I'm sure he'd much rather French-kiss a shark. Of course I and the rest of the TC's would do the same.

You are partners in a harem of beautiful women and you rather start French kissing your own women in that harem. The GCs are now french kissing ALL of them, and believe me, they are not sharks.

[pitsilos]

my baker and my halloumi maker, both of them tcs, in their 60s, and both subscribe to what bir and kikapu are saying.

[Pyrpolizer]

Obviously you know nothing about economics the money that Turkeys gives to us returns to their own economy 2/3 fold, where do you think the majoirty of products we use in the TRNC come from?

Let’s see who knows about economics and who doesn’t:
I give all my money to beggars. Those begars come to my supermarket and make all their shopping. So in your opinion the money I gave to beggars comes back to me 2/3 fold and on top of it I make a profit from the groceries I sell them.





Hint: I spend money to buy groceries for my supermarket.

[pitsilos]

so vp you are gonna chicken out and not provide any figures?

its quite simple man. how much money does turkey tip in the occupied areas.

[Kikapu]

[
Obviously you know nothing about economics the money that Turkeys gives to us returns to their own economy 2/3 fold, where do you think the majoirty of products we use in the TRNC come from?

So, in other words, Turkey gives you money, which you turn around, and buy food from them, so the same money goes back to the giver, but now, they have given away their food for free.

Yes, that make perfect Economic sense for Turkey but for you, it is free food.

If there was one thing I have learned in my life, that is "There's no free Lunch".

As the old bumper sticker would say "GAS, GRASS or ASS"... "nobody rides for free".


What are the TC's giving back in return.?

Actually, I already know the answer, but too embarrassed to say it.

[pitsilos]

its obvious vp is gonna chicken out and never provide any figures, is it possible to take an estimation on how much cash turkey tipped into the occupied ares?.

and i would dread the day the security invoice comes in for the last 32 years.

[Kikapu]

Pyrpolizer,

Can you please "think" a little slower, because you're making my post a little redundant.

Twice today, I post something, then I read something similar that you have already posted, while I was writing mine.

We don't want some people to think, we are conspiring together.

[Viewpoint]

Let me give you a bit of a hand here,if I may please Kikapu?

Take out the following propaganda points and Viewpoint will have nothing to say:

1.Turkey saved us in 1974 from certain genocide...

2. We are nothing without Turkey,or rather we are GC food...

3. You have elected an ex-EOKA man and Turk-hater as President...

4.We don't want to be a minority in a GC run state...

5.Gc's will never share power with TCs,they want to subjugate us and assimilate us...

6. We said YES to the AP and you said NO,that proves you don't want reunification...
7. We have lived peacefully with the status quo for 33 years,that proves we cannot live together...

8.You have our land in the South and we have your land in the North...

9.We got rid of Denktash and put Talat in who has his hand of peace in the air,but Tpapa is not talking to him...

10.The RoC is not a legitimate government as it does not represent the TCs...

11. If you want to show us godwill,just remove the sanctions and isolation measures...

Birkibrisli, Kikapu,

You consider the above as propoganda. TC's concider them to be hard and sad facts.

You both have shown your true colours and its damn ugly.

You should both lay off VP. He represents 99.9% of the TC's. None of the other TC's participating on this forum subscribe to your views, you are both playing a popularity contest game and are selling out and back-stabbing your brothers to score points. Its shameful to say the least.

Lets not muddy the waters,Mrfromng...
I never said the above points have no truth in them. If you are so inclined you can find truth in anything you want,including the allegations that cigarettes are not bad for your health,or golbal warming has nothing to do with human activity...

Our point is that these arguments above are used over and over again without any attempt to see the other side of the coin,thus becoming pure propaganda...What Viewpoint is doing is not helping anything.It is not helping us understand each other any more or respect each other any more. It is just prolonging the pain and agony of most Cypriots.
Each of the above points I listed has a counter point,that any openminded fair person of any background can see...Let me try to put them to you:

1.There was nothing certain about any genocide on TCs in 1974.
There were some isolated massacres,yes,but claims of certain genocide were largely exaggerated.

2.This is designed to put fear into the TCs to accept partition as final solution. It also assumes that GCs are not capable of changing,that all are blood thirsty animals waiting to pounce on us.

3.And what was Denktash?A Greek-lover or TMT opponent on humanitarian grounds?Did he not rule for over 30 years to Tpapa's 5?

4.Who says we have to be a minority in a GC run state?Another scare tactic. Given equal rights and opportunities are we not capable of producing leaders in all aspects of Cypriot life?

5. Who says GCs do not want to share power with us? Have we asked them to share power with us? How can they share power with us when we insist on the recognition of our self declared puppet state?

6. Saying NO to AP could also mean that the GCs just did not like that particular plan? They give TCs work and health cover and passports,and welcome anyone who wants to live in the Republic.

7. It is easy living "peacefully" with your neighbours if you are divided by barb wire and guarded by 40,000 soldiers,don't you think? What kind of test is this of peaceful coexistance?

8. How much land did we have in the South,and how much land did the GCs have in the North? Did we get permission from the individual owners of the lands we have appropriated? Or is it just enough that we shed blood getting control of it?

9.You got rid of Denktash and put Talat in his place,and Talat is now acting more nationalistic than even Denktash was.He is also talking about exhalting the TRNC and showing the GCs who contrls the seas to the North. What is the difference???

10. In whose eyes the RoC is not a legitimate government? The UN and the world recognises it. The TCs did not have to walk away from the Republic in 1963 did they? Couldn't they just say NOOOO to Makarios' proposed changes and get on with it? Makarios could never have managed to change the constitution without the Vice President's approval had he stayed in his elected position.

11.The sanctions and embargoes are legitimate weapons to fight with,though not as effective pehaps as 40,000 soldiers and 500 tanks,don't you think???

These counter points are not necessarily what I believe,Mrfromng.
I am just showing some empathy with my compatriots,and seeing things from their point of view as well. If we can't do this,and if they can't do the same,we are doomed.Our Cyprus will never find peace,the souls of our dead will never rest,and our children will never forgive us for being so cowardly and stubbornly insistent on not moving an inch from our positions established in 1964. If what I am doing is shameful,then our understanding of shame is not the same. You insult my intelligence in alleging that I am playing a popularity game and backstabbing my people. Why on earth would I want to do that? What is my motivation?

I am simply telling it as I see it,and hopefully showing our GC compatriots that we are not all thickheaded, racist, nationalists and chauvinists, who do not give a damn about the fairness or morality of our actions. For that I accept the shame...

Birkibrisli,

Excellent piece of writing and pointing out, as to how civilized people can learn to live together, by seeing the world, from the other side, even if we do not agree with others point of view. My God, we do this every day, in the USA, UK, Australia, and any other Nation of immigrants. I hate labelling people, but has the people of the "TRNC" have become so "Tunnel Visioned" on the partition, that following even the majority have made them become LEMMINS. Well, excuse me, if I do not wish to jump off the Cliff, with the rest of them, by destroying the island they call HOME.

Says Kikapolous to Biroplous