Cyprus-Forum.com

[MR-from-NG]

If I know VP I'm sure he'd much rather French-kiss a shark. Of course I and the rest of the TC's would do the same.

Why, what's wrong with the Turkish Women.

Nothing.

The word is DILENCI. Not DILINCI.

[BirKibrisli]

Let me give you a bit of a hand here,if I may please Kikapu?

Take out the following propaganda points and Viewpoint will have nothing to say:

1.Turkey saved us in 1974 from certain genocide...

2. We are nothing without Turkey,or rather we are GC food...

3. You have elected an ex-EOKA man and Turk-hater as President...

4.We don't want to be a minority in a GC run state...

5.Gc's will never share power with TCs,they want to subjugate us and assimilate us...

6. We said YES to the AP and you said NO,that proves you don't want reunification...
7. We have lived peacefully with the status quo for 33 years,that proves we cannot live together...

8.You have our land in the South and we have your land in the North...

9.We got rid of Denktash and put Talat in who has his hand of peace in the air,but Tpapa is not talking to him...

10.The RoC is not a legitimate government as it does not represent the TCs...

11. If you want to show us godwill,just remove the sanctions and isolation measures...

Birkibrisli, Kikapu,

You consider the above as propoganda. TC's concider them to be hard and sad facts.

You both have shown your true colours and its damn ugly.

You should both lay off VP. He represents 99.9% of the TC's. None of the other TC's participating on this forum subscribe to your views, you are both playing a popularity contest game and are selling out and back-stabbing your brothers to score points. Its shameful to say the least.

Lets not muddy the waters,Mrfromng...
I never said the above points have no truth in them. If you are so inclined you can find truth in anything you want,including the allegations that cigarettes are not bad for your health,or golbal warming has nothing to do with human activity...

Our point is that these arguments above are used over and over again without any attempt to see the other side of the coin,thus becoming pure propaganda...What Viewpoint is doing is not helping anything.It is not helping us understand each other any more or respect each other any more. It is just prolonging the pain and agony of most Cypriots.
Each of the above points I listed has a counter point,that any openminded fair person of any background can see...Let me try to put them to you:

1.There was nothing certain about any genocide on TCs in 1974.
There were some isolated massacres,yes,but claims of certain genocide were largely exaggerated.

2.This is designed to put fear into the TCs to accept partition as final solution. It also assumes that GCs are not capable of changing,that all are blood thirsty animals waiting to pounce on us.

3.And what was Denktash?A Greek-lover or TMT opponent on humanitarian grounds?Did he not rule for over 30 years to Tpapa's 5?

4.Who says we have to be a minority in a GC run state?Another scare tactic. Given equal rights and opportunities are we not capable of producing leaders in all aspects of Cypriot life?

5. Who says GCs do not want to share power with us? Have we asked them to share power with us? How can they share power with us when we insist on the recognition of our self declared puppet state?

6. Saying NO to AP could also mean that the GCs just did not like that particular plan? They give TCs work and health cover and passports,and welcome anyone who wants to live in the Republic.

7. It is easy living "peacefully" with your neighbours if you are divided by barb wire and guarded by 40,000 soldiers,don't you think? What kind of test is this of peaceful coexistance?

8. How much land did we have in the South,and how much land did the GCs have in the North? Did we get permission from the individual owners of the lands we have appropriated? Or is it just enough that we shed blood getting control of it?

9.You got rid of Denktash and put Talat in his place,and Talat is now acting more nationalistic than even Denktash was.He is also talking about exhalting the TRNC and showing the GCs who contrls the seas to the North. What is the difference???

10. In whose eyes the RoC is not a legitimate government? The UN and the world recognises it. The TCs did not have to walk away from the Republic in 1963 did they? Couldn't they just say NOOOO to Makarios' proposed changes and get on with it? Makarios could never have managed to change the constitution without the Vice President's approval had he stayed in his elected position.

11.The sanctions and embargoes are legitimate weapons to fight with,though not as effective pehaps as 40,000 soldiers and 500 tanks,don't you think???

These counter points are not necessarily what I believe,Mrfromng.
I am just showing some empathy with my compatriots,and seeing things from their point of view as well. If we can't do this,and if they can't do the same,we are doomed.Our Cyprus will never find peace,the souls of our dead will never rest,and our children will never forgive us for being so cowardly and stubbornly insistent on not moving an inch from our positions established in 1964. If what I am doing is shameful,then our understanding of shame is not the same. You insult my intelligence in alleging that I am playing a popularity game and backstabbing my people. Why on earth would I want to do that? What is my motivation?

I am simply telling it as I see it,and hopefully showing our GC compatriots that we are not all thickheaded, racist, nationalists and chauvinists, who do not give a damn about the fairness or morality of our actions. For that I accept the shame...

[miltiades]

VP WROTE:
""""am happy that we did not chance on not being anniahalated and that Turkey arrived when they did Im pretty certain you would have wanted the same if you were the ones at risk of being killed . """"

Did you not agree that 8 YEARS PRIOR TO THE INVASION NOT ONE SINGLE T/C LOST HIS LIFE DUE TO ACTIONS BY G/Cs.
You are like an ill bread parrot repeating the same monotonous and boring propaganda .You agreed that none were killed 8 years before July 74 , and you are propagating the nonsense of mass murder !!

[Viewpoint]

VP WROTE:
""""am happy that we did not chance on not being anniahalated and that Turkey arrived when they did Im pretty certain you would have wanted the same if you were the ones at risk of being killed . """"

Did you not agree that 8 YEARS PRIOR TO THE INVASION NOT ONE SINGLE T/C LOST HIS LIFE DUE TO ACTIONS BY G/Cs.
You are like an ill bread parrot repeating the same monotonous and boring propaganda .You agreed that none were killed 8 years before July 74 , and you are propagating the nonsense of mass murder !!

You to are repeating yourself, how is it possible to come up with different arguements when what we are discussing are the same issues over and over again. Can you please clarify where I was "propagating the nonsense of mass murder "? I was stating the risks and fears that TCs were facing from 1963 onwards which culminated in 1974.

[Pyrpolizer]

So when you agrred and signed you had no intention of making it work? The only way to make it work was to water down Tcs rights and strengthen the GC hand, great.

What rights? No one is entitled to have double and tripple rights. Why 18% of the people should hold 40% of the police force? We signed them under blackmail, of those who were violating our rights on the first place.

That was a cover when did Makarios ever tell the truth, he was funding and pushing TCs abroad as they were so economically strained I think you call that ethnic cleansing

It was a mixture of actions and causes from both sides. Why do you only see those coming from the GCs and you never look at the inherited causes of the enclave policy ? There was no successful ethnic cleansing as the percentage of TCs before 1960 up until 1974 remained constant.

It consituted a threat to an already disfunctional constitution and created a state of emergency in which the TC community were definately at risk. Even Makarious asked Turkey to intervene.

Threat is not enough. I currently feel threatened by what Turkey says about war for oil. It is not enough to go to war. And true the goatPriest asked Turkey to intervene to put him back on his throne. Turkeys right to intervene was just to resore the constitutional order…. Not to to what she did.


So there was no risk during those 6 days? the constitution was not in taters and the TCs were living in heaven, come one even you can understand the fear and explosive position TCs were in.

The invasion occured after the risk was over. The Invasion was a hasty grabbing of an opportunity long waited for.

This is what you want to believe the fear was very real and TCs found solis in sticking together this is very natural. Why should TCs want to live in such squalid conditions if they could go home and reclaim whats theres, even today we hear stories of what GCs were doing to the TC community, you to can today go to TC villages in the north and talk to old TCs they will explain exactly what they lived through and how they were treated during those times.

I already said the GC extremists did serve the enclave policy better than anyone. I am aware also of GC people who took the opportunity to frighten the TCs so they would grab their properties. The fact is there were many ways for Turkey to achieve her Taksim dream through the enclave policy. ALL required the suffering of the TC people UP UNTIL TODAY.

I am happy that we did not chance on not being anniahalated and that Turkey arrived when they did Im pretty certain you would have wanted the same if you were the ones at risk of being killed .

Oh, let me get this straight. Because there was a possibility for that happening, you are happy Turkey launched a nuclear missile on the GCs, so that chance is not possible anymore. These are the lies you keep on feeding the average TC to make him feel comfortable.

Suffering? get real have you visited the north or spent time with a TC family, one less car or one less holiday a year is not suffering, please dont insult the poor and hungry in Africa who are suffering with TCs who have a standard of living on par with other EU countries.

You are the ones who complain about the situation there. And yes there is a great percentage of TCs who really suffer in "trnc". The fact is the TC people are half the way to their true potential. And even that is mostly achieved through charity from Turkey.

[pitsilos]

you should then perhaps change the dates, 63-66 because after 66 there was no killing of tcs.

coz tcs weren't killed 8 years before the invasion in 74

[Kikapu]

Let me give you a bit of a hand here,if I may please Kikapu?

Take out the following propaganda points and Viewpoint will have nothing to say:

1.Turkey saved us in 1974 from certain genocide...

2. We are nothing without Turkey,or rather we are GC food...

3. You have elected an ex-EOKA man and Turk-hater as President...

4.We don't want to be a minority in a GC run state...

5.Gc's will never share power with TCs,they want to subjugate us and assimilate us...

6. We said YES to the AP and you said NO,that proves you don't want reunification...
7. We have lived peacefully with the status quo for 33 years,that proves we cannot live together...

8.You have our land in the South and we have your land in the North...

9.We got rid of Denktash and put Talat in who has his hand of peace in the air,but Tpapa is not talking to him...

10.The RoC is not a legitimate government as it does not represent the TCs...

11. If you want to show us godwill,just remove the sanctions and isolation measures...

Birkibrisli, Kikapu,

You consider the above as propoganda. TC's concider them to be hard and sad facts.

You both have shown your true colours and its damn ugly.

You should both lay off VP. He represents 99.9% of the TC's. None of the other TC's participating on this forum subscribe to your views, you are both playing a popularity contest game and are selling out and back-stabbing your brothers to score points. Its shameful to say the least.

Lets not muddy the waters,Mrfromng...
I never said the above points have no truth in them. If you are so inclined you can find truth in anything you want,including the allegations that cigarettes are not bad for your health,or golbal warming has nothing to do with human activity...

Our point is that these arguments above are used over and over again without any attempt to see the other side of the coin,thus becoming pure propaganda...What Viewpoint is doing is not helping anything.It is not helping us understand each other any more or respect each other any more. It is just prolonging the pain and agony of most Cypriots.
Each of the above points I listed has a counter point,that any openminded fair person of any background can see...Let me try to put them to you:

1.There was nothing certain about any genocide on TCs in 1974.
There were some isolated massacres,yes,but claims of certain genocide were largely exaggerated.

2.This is designed to put fear into the TCs to accept partition as final solution. It also assumes that GCs are not capable of changing,that all are blood thirsty animals waiting to pounce on us.

3.And what was Denktash?A Greek-lover or TMT opponent on humanitarian grounds?Did he not rule for over 30 years to Tpapa's 5?

4.Who says we have to be a minority in a GC run state?Another scare tactic. Given equal rights and opportunities are we not capable of producing leaders in all aspects of Cypriot life?

5. Who says GCs do not want to share power with us? Have we asked them to share power with us? How can they share power with us when we insist on the recognition of our self declared puppet state?

6. Saying NO to AP could also mean that the GCs just did not like that particular plan? They give TCs work and health cover and passports,and welcome anyone who wants to live in the Republic.

7. It is easy living "peacefully" with your neighbours if you are divided by barb wire and guarded by 40,000 soldiers,don't you think? What kind of test is this of peaceful coexistance?

8. How much land did we have in the South,and how much land did the GCs have in the North? Did we get permission from the individual owners of the lands we have appropriated? Or is it just enough that we shed blood getting control of it?

9.You got rid of Denktash and put Talat in his place,and Talat is now acting more nationalistic than even Denktash was.He is also talking about exhalting the TRNC and showing the GCs who contrls the seas to the North. What is the difference???

10. In whose eyes the RoC is not a legitimate government? The UN and the world recognises it. The TCs did not have to walk away from the Republic in 1963 did they? Couldn't they just say NOOOO to Makarios' proposed changes and get on with it? Makarios could never have managed to change the constitution without the Vice President's approval had he stayed in his elected position.

11.The sanctions and embargoes are legitimate weapons to fight with,though not as effective pehaps as 40,000 soldiers and 500 tanks,don't you think???

These counter points are not necessarily what I believe,Mrfromng.
I am just showing some empathy with my compatriots,and seeing things from their point of view as well. If we can't do this,and if they can't do the same,we are doomed.Our Cyprus will never find peace,the souls of our dead will never rest,and our children will never forgive us for being so cowardly and stubbornly insistent on not moving an inch from our positions established in 1964. If what I am doing is shameful,then our understanding of shame is not the same. You insult my intelligence in alleging that I am playing a popularity game and backstabbing my people. Why on earth would I want to do that? What is my motivation?

I am simply telling it as I see it,and hopefully showing our GC compatriots that we are not all thickheaded, racist, nationalists and chauvinists, who do not give a damn about the fairness or morality of our actions. For that I accept the shame...

Birkibrisli,

Excellent piece of writing and pointing out, as to how civilized people can learn to live together, by seeing the world, from the other side, even if we do not agree with others point of view. My God, we do this every day, in the USA, UK, Australia, and any other Nation of immigrants. I hate labelling people, but has the people of the "TRNC" have become so "Tunnel Visioned" on the partition, that following even the majority have made them become LEMMINS. Well, excuse me, if I do not wish to jump off the Cliff, with the rest of them, by destroying the island they call HOME.

[MR-from-NG]

Let me give you a bit of a hand here,if I may please Kikapu?

Take out the following propaganda points and Viewpoint will have nothing to say:

1.Turkey saved us in 1974 from certain genocide...

2. We are nothing without Turkey,or rather we are GC food...

3. You have elected an ex-EOKA man and Turk-hater as President...

4.We don't want to be a minority in a GC run state...

5.Gc's will never share power with TCs,they want to subjugate us and assimilate us...

6. We said YES to the AP and you said NO,that proves you don't want reunification...
7. We have lived peacefully with the status quo for 33 years,that proves we cannot live together...

8.You have our land in the South and we have your land in the North...

9.We got rid of Denktash and put Talat in who has his hand of peace in the air,but Tpapa is not talking to him...

10.The RoC is not a legitimate government as it does not represent the TCs...

11. If you want to show us godwill,just remove the sanctions and isolation measures...

Birkibrisli, Kikapu,

You consider the above as propoganda. TC's concider them to be hard and sad facts.

You both have shown your true colours and its damn ugly.

You should both lay off VP. He represents 99.9% of the TC's. None of the other TC's participating on this forum subscribe to your views, you are both playing a popularity contest game and are selling out and back-stabbing your brothers to score points. Its shameful to say the least.

Lets not muddy the waters,Mrfromng...
I never said the above points have no truth in them. If you are so inclined you can find truth in anything you want,including the allegations that cigarettes are not bad for your health,or golbal warming has nothing to do with human activity...

Our point is that these arguments above are used over and over again without any attempt to see the other side of the coin,thus becoming pure propaganda...What Viewpoint is doing is not helping anything.It is not helping us understand each other any more or respect each other any more. It is just prolonging the pain and agony of most Cypriots.
Each of the above points I listed has a counter point,that any openminded fair person of any background can see...Let me try to put them to you:

1.There was nothing certain about any genocide on TCs in 1974.
There were some isolated massacres,yes,but claims of certain genocide were largely exaggerated.

2.This is designed to put fear into the TCs to accept partition as final solution. It also assumes that GCs are not capable of changing,that all are blood thirsty animals waiting to pounce on us.

3.And what was Denktash?A Greek-lover or TMT opponent on humanitarian grounds?Did he not rule for over 30 years to Tpapa's 5?

4.Who says we have to be a minority in a GC run state?Another scare tactic. Given equal rights and opportunities are we not capable of producing leaders in all aspects of Cypriot life?

5. Who says GCs do not want to share power with us? Have we asked them to share power with us? How can they share power with us when we insist on the recognition of our self declared puppet state?

6. Saying NO to AP could also mean that the GCs just did not like that particular plan? They give TCs work and health cover and passports,and welcome anyone who wants to live in the Republic.

7. It is easy living "peacefully" with your neighbours if you are divided by barb wire and guarded by 40,000 soldiers,don't you think? What kind of test is this of peaceful coexistance?

8. How much land did we have in the South,and how much land did the GCs have in the North? Did we get permission from the individual owners of the lands we have appropriated? Or is it just enough that we shed blood getting control of it?

9.You got rid of Denktash and put Talat in his place,and Talat is now acting more nationalistic than even Denktash was.He is also talking about exhalting the TRNC and showing the GCs who contrls the seas to the North. What is the difference???

10. In whose eyes the RoC is not a legitimate government? The UN and the world recognises it. The TCs did not have to walk away from the Republic in 1963 did they? Couldn't they just say NOOOO to Makarios' proposed changes and get on with it? Makarios could never have managed to change the constitution without the Vice President's approval had he stayed in his elected position.

11.The sanctions and embargoes are legitimate weapons to fight with,though not as effective pehaps as 40,000 soldiers and 500 tanks,don't you think???

These counter points are not necessarily what I believe,Mrfromng.
I am just showing some empathy with my compatriots,and seeing things from their point of view as well. If we can't do this,and if they can't do the same,we are doomed.Our Cyprus will never find peace,the souls of our dead will never rest,and our children will never forgive us for being so cowardly and stubbornly insistent on not moving an inch from our positions established in 1964. If what I am doing is shameful,then our understanding of shame is not the same. You insult my intelligence in alleging that I am playing a popularity game and backstabbing my people. Why on earth would I want to do that? What is my motivation?

I am simply telling it as I see it,and hopefully showing our GC compatriots that we are not all thickheaded, racist, nationalists and chauvinists, who do not give a damn about the fairness or morality of our actions. For that I accept the shame...

I do not subscribe to your counterpoints at all BK. Can you tell me what percentage of the TC community in Aussieland you represent? I have friends that have moved back after a long spell in Australia and they certainly have no resemblance to you at all.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkopolous even if you are 100% correct so what? you really need to do some soul searching as you are being hypocritcal living in a foreign land and dictacting to people who live in another country how to resolve issues which are not one sided but can impact our lives not yours in a cery negative and dangerous way. You are a text book individual with no hands on experience of today all you know is the past. We TCs are the TRNC a mosiac of TCs and Turks why does this make you so uncomfortable? you are a diluted individual who has lost the warmth of his roots, obviously you would rather be a mosiac with Greek Cypriots that is your choice not ours if it was we would all be living in the south, you are free to do so whenever you wish no one is stopping you but remember you have no right to force me or any other TC.

What you are doing is nothing new,Viewpoint.You cannot attack my arguments so you attack my person. It is a time honoured method used by dishonorable cowards with nothing but propaganda and misinformation on their minds...

You know as well as I do,that not only do I know the past because I lived it,but I also know the present,and I can tell the future looking at the present and the past. Coming from you,the acusations of being a "textbook individual" and "diluted individual" are just laughable.

You are not a mosaic of anything.You are a member of a downthroden, forcibly assimilated,scared,and criminally immoral entity with an inferiority complex and without any dignity or self respect.I feel sorry for you.

[Kikapu]

If I know VP I'm sure he'd much rather French-kiss a shark. Of course I and the rest of the TC's would do the same.

Why, what's wrong with the Turkish Women.

Nothing.

The word is DILENCI. Not DILINCI.

Thanks mrfromng for correcting my Turkish......again.

Do I get "Six of the Best" if I make another mistake or what.