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EU to end sanctions on North?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:36 am

LENA wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:It reminds me of 1974 when your "peace forces" from Turkey were hunging a Christian cross on the necks of poor TCs just to ridicule them for their spoken Turkish. :cry:

Do you knoe how many TC women and girls your "peace forces" from Turkey have raped in 1974 VP?


Tell us ho oracle and make the data independent....links please?


RAPE Relevant Article:- No one shall be subjected to torture or to in-human or degrading treatment or punishment.

Charge:- Turkish troops were responsible for wholesale and repeated rapes of women of all ages from 12 to 71. Sometimes to such an extent that the victims suffered haemorrhages or became mental wrecks. In some areas, enforced prostitution was practised, all women and girls of a village being collected and put into separate rooms in empty houses where they were raped repeatedly.
In certain cases members of the same family were repeatedly raped, some of them in front of their own children. In other cases women were brutally raped in public.
Rapes were on many occasions accompanied by brutality such as violent biting of the victims, causing severe wounding, banging their heads on the floor and wringing their throats almost to the point of suffocation. In some cases attempts to rape were followed by the stabbing or killing of the victims, including pregnant and mentally-retarded women.
Evidence given to Commission:- Testimony of doctors C and H, who examined the victims. Eye-witnesses and hearsay witnesses also gave evidence, and the Commission had before it written statements from 41 alleged victims.
Dr H said he had confirmed rape in 70 cases, including:-
• A mentally-retarded girl of 24 was raped in her house by 20 soldiers. When she started screaming they threw her from the second floor window. She fractured her spine and was paralysed.
• One day after their arrival at Voni, Turks took girls to a nearby house and raped them. ? One woman from Voni was raped on three occasions by four persons each time. She became pregnant.
• One girl, from Palekythrou, who was held with others in a house, was taken out at gun point and raped.
• At Tanvu, Turkish soldiers tried to rape a 17 year-old girl. She resisted and was shot dead.
• A woman from Gypsou told Dr H that 25 girls were kept by Turks at Marathouvouno as prostitutes.
Another witness said his wife was raped in front of their children. Witness S told of 25 girls who complained to Turkish officers about being raped and were raped again by the officers. A man (name withheld) reported that his wife was stabbed in the neck while resisting rape. His grand-daughter, aged six, had been stabbed and killed by Turkish soldiers attempting to rape her.
A Red Cross witness said that in August 1974, while the island’s telephones were still working, the Red Cross Society received calls from Palekythrou and Kaponti reporting rapes. The Red Cross also took care of 38 women released from Voni and Gypsou detention camps; all had been raped, some in front of their husbands and children. Others had been raped repeatedly, or put in houses frequented with Turkish soldiers.
These women were taken to Akrotiri hospital, in the British Sovereign Base Area, where they were treated. Three were found to be pregnant. Reference was also made to several abortions performed at the base.
Commission’s verdict:- By 12 votes to one the Commission found "that the incidents of rape described in the cases referred to and regarded as established constitute "in-human treatment" and thus violations of Article 3 for which Turkey is responsible under the Convention."


http://www.greece.org/cyprus/Takism4.htm

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Appears to be a very indpendent and unbiased source Lena. Even if 1% of these events are true it is still a disgrace and I personally wish it never happened no one deserves this type of treatment. But we cant turn back the clock all we can do is learn from our mistakes and not put ourselves in such a explosive position ever again. Thats why the last 33 years have been the best in terms of living peacefully since the formation of the "RoC" lets hope this continues and no one has to endure such horrors ever again.
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Postby LENA » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:57 am

Viewpoint wrote:Appears to be a very indpendent and unbiased source Lena. Even if 1% of these events are true it is still a disgrace and I personally wish it never happened no one deserves this type of treatment. But we cant turn back the clock all we can do is learn from our mistakes and not put ourselves in such a explosive position ever again. Thats why the last 33 years have been the best in terms of living peacefully since the formation of the "RoC" lets hope this continues and no one has to endure such horrors ever again.


If you want me to find a source more independent with the same or similar context I can. Just give me time. But my point is not that. To prove that all this are facts. We suffer as you suffer the same from all this. My point its exactly what you said. "We cant turn back the clock." And I wish that was the last time we faced this kind of violence. But why is so difficult for all of you to move on, to forget and forgive, to share a country, so small and so beautiful country. Why?
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:21 pm

LENA wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Appears to be a very indpendent and unbiased source Lena. Even if 1% of these events are true it is still a disgrace and I personally wish it never happened no one deserves this type of treatment. But we cant turn back the clock all we can do is learn from our mistakes and not put ourselves in such a explosive position ever again. Thats why the last 33 years have been the best in terms of living peacefully since the formation of the "RoC" lets hope this continues and no one has to endure such horrors ever again.


If you want me to find a source more independent with the same or similar context I can. Just give me time. But my point is not that. To prove that all this are facts. We suffer as you suffer the same from all this. My point its exactly what you said. "We cant turn back the clock." And I wish that was the last time we faced this kind of violence. But why is so difficult for all of you to move on, to forget and forgive, to share a country, so small and so beautiful country. Why?


Difference in objectives

Mistrust

Fear

Misunderstandings

Greed

Dominance

take your pick.
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Postby LENA » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:33 pm

Mistrust : Thats what I was telling you we have to trust each other.

Fear : Of what??


Difference in objectives & Misunderstandings : Try to see things from our view and vice versa. Try to be in our position and vice versa. Try to understand us and vice versa.

Greed : For how long? We have to forget, forgive and move on.

Dominance : By who? Us or the Turks?

take your pick : ??????
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:41 pm

LENA
Mistrust : Thats what I was telling you we have to trust each other.


Neither side is doing anything to build trust we cant even agree to open a crossing let alone run a country together.

Just saying we have to trust each other doesnt amount to much actions are necessary for people to start trusting one another.

Fear : Of what??
Inter-communal fighting, bombs, war.

Difference in objectives & Misunderstandings : Try to see things from our view and vice verse. Try to be in our position and vice verse. Try to understand us and vice verse.


Each side is fighting for their own interests because we do not see ourselves as one whole, we want a say in our future and security you want land and power.

Greed : For how long? We have to forget, forgive and move on.


Having sole recognition and the benefits that come with this is being greedy when you deny others the same rights....each side will hold on to their bargaining chips for as long as it take to get what they want, unless one side backs down and starts acting like it cares for the whole population we will get nowhere.

Dominance : By who? Us or the Turks?


GCs that why TCs demand so many safeguards to ensure they will not be able to dominate or force their will on us.
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Postby LENA » Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:10 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Neither side is doing anything to build trust we cant even agree to open a crossing let alone run a country together.

Just saying we have to trust each other doesnt amount to much actions are necessary for people to start trusting one another.


We have to start from somewhere. And let’s start from ourselves. I trust you and I invite you to the south part (the same thing as far as I remember Miltiades done before). Will you come? If your answer is the same as Miltiades, it means that you don’t trust us. You want action and trust each other. Do you trust me or any GC?

Inter-communal fighting, bombs, war.


If we respect each other and we treat to everyone as we want to treat us, if we forget and forgive I don’t see any reason for inter-communal fights. Bombs, war??? Even if the whole situation was not a fact, we are never going to be sure that nobody will start a war. Take for example the Americans…

Each side is fighting for their own interests because we do not see ourselves as one whole, we want a say in our future and security you want land and power.


That’s what I am telling you about. And the problem here it is you. We want one country without any borders. We see our island as one! You want recognition of a part, you talk about your country which is the TRNC.


Having sole recognition and the benefits that come with this is being greedy when you deny others the same rights....each side will hold on to their bargaining chips for as long as it take to get what they want, unless one side backs down and starts acting like it cares for the whole population we will get nowhere.


From the first moment that I posted in this forum I said that to find a solution we all have to step back. We both have to give something or concede to come to an agreement. Being greedy for the rest of our lives is not going to lead us anywhere.

TCs demand so many safeguards to ensure they will not be able to dominate or force their will on us.


But as you said you don’t step back, you don’t cede anything…but you demand so many!!!!
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Postby Kikapu » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:00 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:[

zan thanks my friend, one more attempt at insulting me personally and I will give as good as I get there are limts to everything and Kikapolous has just stepped over the red line.


Village Punk,

As long as you continue to use Kikapolous, I get the feeling you're calling me a TRAITOR. So either say it and be done with it or you're being a COWARD. Now you can decide which way you want to go with this. I'm flexible, but I'm not going to let you hide behind Kikapolous and get away with it.!!

Is that clear enough for you.??


You need to answer the above question VP. I can't wait for you, for ever.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:04 pm

Birkibrisli wrote:Let me give you a bit of a hand here,if I may please Kikapu?

Take out the following propaganda points and Viewpoint will have nothing to say:

1.Turkey saved us in 1974 from certain genocide...

2. We are nothing without Turkey,or rather we are GC food...

3. You have elected an ex-EOKA man and Turk-hater as President...

4.We don't want to be a minority in a GC run state...

5.Gc's will never share power with TCs,they want to subjugate us and assimilate us...

6. We said YES to the AP and you said NO,that proves you don't want reunification...
7. We have lived peacefully with the status quo for 33 years,that proves we cannot live together...

8.You have our land in the South and we have your land in the North...

9.We got rid of Denktash and put Talat in who has his hand of peace in the air,but Tpapa is not talking to him...

10.The RoC is not a legitimate government as it does not represent the TCs...

11. If you want to show us godwill,just remove the sanctions and isolation measures...

These are just from the top of my head.Did I leave anything out,viewpoint?

Sincerely Yours,

Biropoulos... :wink: :D


Thanks Bir,

I was really tired last night, so could not focus on Zan's question, but you got most of the points. I spent most of the evening, trying to get VP to answer a simple question, but kept avoiding it. I hope I have a better luck today.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:08 pm

Viewpoint wrote: But we cant turn back the clock all we can do is learn from our mistakes and not put ourselves in such a explosive position ever again. Thats why the last 33 years have been the best in terms of living peacefully since the formation of the "RoC" lets hope this continues and no one has to endure such horrors ever again.


All the above is pure "Propaganda Shit".

Civilized people can overcome anything.
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Postby LENA » Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:24 pm

Kikapu wrote:But we cant turn back the clock all we can do is learn from our mistakes and not put ourselves in such a explosive position ever again. Thats why the last 33 years have been the best in terms of living peacefully since the formation of the "RoC" lets hope this continues and no one has to endure such horrors ever again.

All the above is pure "Propaganda Shit".

Civilized people can overcome anything.


Read my post to VP Kikapu!!!!
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