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How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby shahmaran » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:27 am

pitsilos wrote:look man, its just one of thousands for crying out loud. we are talking in excess of 1 million people women , children and oldies.

you can't call 1000 murders, due to inter communal fighting, from both sites and at each other a genocide. you deamining all the people that actually died as a result of a genocide.


you are talking as if "inter-communal fighting" is absolute chaos where anything is possible in any deggree with no absolute strategy.

i dont understand how many people have to die for it to be "genocide", i dont think it works in numbers my friend, but its more about the motive behind the killings, just coz we are not "nearly wiped out" doesnt mean it was simply "inter-communal fighting" and that the aim was not to cleanse the island from TCs.
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Postby pitsilos » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:43 am

look shahmaran, 1000, people form both sides dying, its not exactly a genocide, in any ones books.

we had a very few fuckheads from both sides and thats that. i grew up in a mixed neighborhood, and i remember during the 63 fighting, we were all digging together bombshelters, even though turkey was bombing. i also remember assemblying during all hrs of the night when the sirens went off.

there was no animocity to the tcs, in the same shelter from the gcs. and this is limassol
Last edited by pitsilos on Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby shahmaran » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:53 am

pitsilos, genocide is to wipe out a particular group for their ethnicity, race, religion, political views, etc.

now i dont know about you, but i am not really aware of any TC plans to wipe out the GCs from the island, so excuse my ignorance, but if there was such a plan than i have very successfully been blinded to it over the years i spent in the TRNC.

ofcourse it was a few fuckheads from either side but the outcome didnt change and thats why we are where we are today.

so please explain this to me...
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Postby pitsilos » Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:58 am

we are going in circles shahmaran

we agreed it was a few fuckheads that are the cause where we are today.

the majority of cypriots didn't hate or wanted exterminations. i just gave you my experience.

i am sure there were plans from the tmt for partition and how to go about it.

but all in all shahmaran nothing will ever justify ethnic clensing of so many people.
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Postby zan » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:12 am

pitsilos wrote:thats true zan, but the us telegraph states a bit more that that.


I have no doubt that the authoriteis turned a blind eye to some of these killings but given the times and how many Kurds the Armenians killed and how they were turning against the Ottomans agian points to war and not genocide.


Any way, that is for Turkey to fight. We, the Turkish Cypriots have our own problems.
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Postby shahmaran » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:20 am

no one is blaimng all the GCs for what happened, but ALL the TCs are still paying the price for the actions of those few GC "fuckheads" and on top of that we are being told that it was our fault!

can you not see the sickening twist in the chain of these events?

new generations of TCs are born into this conflict still paying the price, while GC kids just have to hear a few horror stories about their lost properties and old villages.

i wonder what exactly does a man have to do, to no be a part of this ridiculously unfair part of Cypriot history, without having to desert his own country...so please dont tell me about justification my friend...
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Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:25 am

snake, Turkey was in war with Russia when the Armenians thought it would be a good chance to rise up against her, thats not genocide my friend thats war, Turkey killed a lot of people during that period in order to regain her independence,mostly foreign too, however going after TCs only, thats genocide! And funny enough most of it occured while the GCs were too busy running away from the Turkish invasion, so call me an idiot but i truly fail to see how that is self defence or even strategical retreat! (unless ofcourse that was the initial strategy)


Over a million and a half Armenians were killed during the final years of the Ottoman Empire - are you saying a 1,500,000 or so Armenians were soldiers?? Women and children were soldiers? You also have to ask why the Armenians sided with the Russians.

Look at during that period in Turkey, many Christian minorities had to change their names to sound Turkish to avoid persecution. Even today, to become a Turkish citizen, you have to register a Turkish name. Is this not persecution against minorities? Even recently we have witnessed the harrassment of Greek and Armenian minorities in Turkey, which the government and the police does not intend make a real effort to stop.

With regards to GC going after TC only meaning 'genocide', this is exactly what I mean to TC being willfully blind to the truth. Between 1963 and 1969, the inter-communal deaths between GC and TC were rougly the same - with maybe 150 or so more TC deaths. So are you telling me that the 150 or so more deaths makes the difference for a so-called 'genocide'??? Why are you avoiding that fact the TC paramilitaries also did their upmost to cause animosity in Cyprus between the two communities to realise their ideology of racial segregation??? You do know that official UN figures show that more Greek Cypriots died at the hands of the Turkish army and Turkish Cypriot paramilitaries than the total number of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot deaths in the previous ten years? So does this not count as your version of 'genocide' too??

Its even more amazing to see how many GCs actually believe that TCs have no brains and that they actually need the propaganda from Turkey to make their own minds up about the situation that THEY were in them selves. You are soo ahead of yourself that you claim to be able to diagnose the social problems of an entire nation like the Turks, get over yourself man seriously


You said it in the sentence that I put in bold. Either you are afraid of the truth that both sides share an equal blame to crimes leading upto the invasion of 1974...and the proven facts that outside superpowers (such as the US and UK) wanted to divide Cyprus in order to please Turkey, which also sees many Turks and Turkish Cypriots making up lies to legitimise the current crime commited in Cyprus by Turkey - OR - you DO have no brains in deciphering what the word 'genocide' means and cannot comprehend credible facts and figures reported by the United Nations or the European Courts of Human Rights with regards to the Cyprus Problem.

For how much longer are Turkish Cypriots and Turks going to turn their heads away from the truth in order to fit in with the denialist Turkish social structure????

Do you know what 'genocide' means???? Or are you trying to divert the fact that the Turkish Ottoman Empire is side by side with the Nazi regime in commiting acts of real actual genocide in the last 100 years.
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Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:35 am

no one is blaimng all the GCs for what happened, but ALL the TCs are still paying the price for the actions of those few GC "fuckheads" and on top of that we are being told that it was our fault!


What about those few TC "fuckheads" who created animosity in Cyprus to push forward their ideology for racially segregating Cyprus. What about the Turkish paramilitary group the TMT who threatend Turkish Cypriots with their lives if they did not leave their homes for good and live in self styled enclaves?

can you not see the sickening twist in the chain of these events?


I've studied the chain of events in Cyprus through many credible sources which are external from any Greek or Turkish pay roll.

new generations of TCs are born into this conflict still paying the price, while GC kids just have to hear a few horror stories about their lost properties and old villages.


So what is the difference here? Why are TC born into the conflict but GC kids just have to hear a few 'horror stories'? Are we supposed to feel bad because many Greek Cypriots who had good business in the north were forced from their homes and ended up with only the shoes in their feet? Whilst Turkish Cypriots who moved north ended up with nice new hotels and bars along Kyrenia harbour??

i wonder what exactly does a man have to do, to no be a part of this ridiculously unfair part of Cypriot history, without having to desert his own country...so please dont tell me about justification my friend...


Care to elaborate here? Which country are you talking about? Cyprus or the Turkish colony in the north of the island?
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Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:37 am

now i dont know about you, but i am not really aware of any TC plans to wipe out the GCs from the island, so excuse my ignorance, but if there was such a plan than i have very successfully been blinded to it over the years i spent in the TRNC.


BINGO! Your getting closer to the truth my friend and hopefully closer to reunification.
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Postby shahmaran » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:43 am

snake, i believe i have given my views on exactly these just a few posts up...

all i can add to is that, it would be absolutely ridiculous for you to even think about suggesting any similarities between the Ottoman Empire and the Nazis soecially on genocide...which is probably why you would not find ANYONE that can deny what happened to the Jews during that period, but the first people in the EU to make such a big legal noise about the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, are the same people who hold a massive popoulation of Armenians in their country and still refuse the Rwandan genocide, im sorry if i am a bit sceptical ...
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