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The three R.R.Rs (These are minimum T/C demands)

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby turkcyp » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:38 am

Alasya wrote:I think most T/Cs proved they supported reunification by those huge demonstrations in Cyprus last year, and by the 65% who said YES in the referendum.


Most TCs supported Annan Plan because it is better than what we have right now. Not because it is better than an agreed partition.

Partition, Unification as a federal state, as a unitary state, TCs a minority under RoC are all solution options which are favored by diferent people. And all of them are valid to different degres of feasibility.

The final solution which will be found will be depending on many things like time, power, etc. etc. And nothing is final because there is always a tomorow.
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Postby Othellos » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:08 pm

Alexandros Lordos wrote:
Alasya wrote:
By the way am I the only linguist here? Anybody else have a passion for language issues?


Wouldn't it be amazing if all of us could speak both Greek and Turkish? Then we wouldn't have to use this stupid English to communicate ...


I remember talking someone from Switzerland who served as a board member in one of his country's professional organizations. He told me that in their meetings all 3 languages were used without any problems. One whould ask something in French, someone else would reply in Geman and another would add a comment in Italian. While they all understood each other, at the same time they used their native language to communicate. I thought that this was cool!

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Postby brother » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:34 pm

THAT IS COOL. BUT AS LONG AS WE DON'T HAVE TO SPEAK FRENCH, ANYTHING BUT FRENCH. :shock:
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Postby Alasya » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:01 pm

French is not difficult as far as language learning goes. Arabic and Mandarin Chinese are on the other hand quite difficult to master. It takes years to learn the alphabet and read simple sentences. And both have al;ien ideas to Indo-European languages, example Chinese is a tonal language, so there are three or four ways of saying "Ma", which can mean horse or mother, depending on where the word stress is put.

More than 50% of English words derive from Normand French, because of the heavy influence and transformation of English after the Norman conquest of England in 1066, a very important date as far English is concerned. In England, French was lingua franca for the aristocracy and bourgoisie centuries after 1066 as it was in other parts of Europe.

You can really see the difference in these texts below.

Take for instance this text in Old English (pre-1066)

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,

5
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra

10
ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning!
ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned,
geong in geardum, þone god sende
folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat

15
þe hie ær drugon aldorlease
lange hwile. Him þæs liffrea,
wuldres wealdend, woroldare forgeaf;
Beowulf wæs breme (blæd wide sprang),
Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.

20
Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
fromum feohgiftum on fæder bearme,
þæt hine on ylde eft gewunigen
wilgesiþas, þonne wig cume,
leode gelæsten; lofdædum sceal

25
in mægþa gehwære man geþeon.

Here you can see Anglo-Saxon, Frisian influences, noite how the verb goes at the end as in other West Germanic languages, and how most words do not look familiar, except the propositions, on, in, to, ofer (over).



Now take a Middle English text post-1066
Actus Primus. Sceena Prima.
Enter Richard Duke of Gloster, solus.

Now is the Winter of our Discontent,
Made glorious Summer by this Son of Yorke:
And all the clouds that lowr'd vpon our house
In the deepe bosome of the Ocean buried.
Now are our browes bound with Victorious Wreathes, 5
Our bruised armes hung vp for Monuments;
Our sterne Alarums chang'd to merry Meetings;
Our dreadfull Marches, to delightfull Measures,
Grim-visag'd Warre, hath smooth'd his wrinkled Front:

Much of the lexis (words), adjectives and verbs in the Middle English text come from French (and from French they come Latin), example: Measure, Monument, delightful, Front, armes (spelt as arms in Modern English), victorious, ocean, discontent, duke, enter, glorious, merry, change...
I have also observed that even the syntax is more like French than any Germanic language, here the word order in a sentence ressembles French interference, example: And all the clouds that lowr'd vpon our house, similar to French "et tous les nuages qui sont basses sur notre maison"

but other sentences retain the original Germanic syntax, example: In the deepe bosome of the Ocean buried. (but this does not exist in Modern English)

Many important English words that we use everyday, even unlikely words come from French. Example Because (comes from the Normand French bicause), bargain comes from Normand French bargaignier,no longer used in French, and purchase comes from the Normand French Pourchassier.

French is very close to English, or English is the most franchified Germanic language. You needn`t be scared of French brother! :D

But you are right, for Cyprus maybe not.
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Postby Alasya » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:03 pm

my apologies, there was something wrong with my PC
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Postby Alasya » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:08 pm

may I just add that with "delightful", although delight comes from the French delice, the suffix -ful is Germanic, in German for instance you can say "liebervoll" = loving, affectionate.
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Postby Saint Jimmy » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:59 pm

Alasya, I'm sure you're right about the which language is harder stuff, but french still sucks :D I think Spanish is the language! It's just cool :D
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Postby uzan » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:18 pm

Alexandros Lordos wrote:
Alasya wrote:
By the way am I the only linguist here? Anybody else have a passion for language issues?


Wouldn't it be amazing if all of us could speak both Greek and Turkish? Then we wouldn't have to use this stupid English to communicate ...
My fried Lordos you are proving my poit that I keep stating that Greeks in general are ethnocentric one could even say they tend to be racist The English Language is not stupit I am happy that I have some command of it. However I would welcome the opportunity to see that Tcand Gc incliding the other communities in Our beloved country speak both Turkish and Grek It has always been my dream and I have achieved that because I am fluent in both. This make two of us but I know thousands who are bi-lingual and they are Turkish Cypriots!!!! :lol:
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Postby brother » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:40 am

thanks alasya, point taken, i spoke french quite well as a child but as i grew up forgot the language, but my dislike of french comes from the many arrogant french people i keep meeting whenever i go to france, they are so rude and unhelpful it beggers belief.
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Postby KELEBEK » Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:44 am

The French tend to remind me of the Mainland Turks. They both use those toilets, you know the ones with the hole in the ground that you have to squat over to pee. They really smell bad and occasionally a rat pops his head up and bites your ass. Thats why I prefer to use the normal ones even in North Cyprus.

And both their food smells and so do they. Dont get me wrong, I like mainlanders, they are more polite than T/C for one, but they do smell. I was sitting next to a really pretty young girl from Turkey, we were talking about girly things, she was admiring my hand bag and watch, and was asking me so many questions about my life in America, but when I sat a little nearer to her, as I like to be near to people and look into their eyes when I talk to them, she smelled real bad. So before I left, I gave her my Vichy deodrant and some damn expensive make-up. I did it in a nice way, I wasn`t being patronizing, but apparently she took offence, bless her sweet little soul. :roll:
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