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The TMT mentality of the 60s for taksim.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:18 pm

shahmaran wrote:Enosis died when WE killed it!

Thats why we r divided at the moment, so get that into your little head! ;) ;)


Whatever. Why do you avoid the question? If we assume Taksim was the effect of Enosis then why there has been absolutely no killing of your Taksim dream after Enosis died?

Btw when you say "we" I assume you include the 70 million Karasakalis in that "we", right? :razz:
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Postby reportfromcyprus » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:22 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:Yeah right.

You too keep on dreaming based on a tiny minority of TCs who join the PRIO group. In fact if you notice carefully I already mentioned that there is a minority among the TCs with whom we have a common goal. But they are just that. A minority. Which is not getting bigger it is actually getting smaller.

Should I keep on dreaming that the vast majority of taksimists is going to give me a solution? Should I base my policy on a small minority?

I tell you man, if the TCs are unable to abandon their taksim dreams en mass, there is absolutely no way there will ever be a solution in Cyprus.
Our soft talks and our friendly slaps on the back proved totally ineffective. They just look back at us and laugh with our stupidity.


I don't think it's a dream that is unreachable to have stability, security and peace between the island's communities. If there was political will, why not? These words, taksim, enosis, they are defensive, outdated concepts that have no validity today. They belong in the history books, so that people can start thinking about a clearer future.

You can tell me to get real and stop being a dreamer all you want, but I'm not the one living in the past.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:26 pm

I have said this many times, but I will say it again.

People are greedy by nature. If they were not we wouldn't have the super rich living in multi-million dollar villas, and others dying from hunger at the same time.

The TCs who are the 18%, now occupy the 37% and the believe they can keep that, or at least a lot more than the 18% that proportionately belongs to them, just for themselves on our loss. Turkey also believes that they can keep north Cyprus on our expense, and this situation suits some others as well (e.g. UK).

This is the essence of the Cyprus problem. Everything else is just details so people can waste their time talking about them like we do here.

So how can the problem be solved?

There is the "idealistic" way:
Everybody accepting that they can not gain on the loss of another, all Cypriots are equal without racist discriminations, and we have a democratic united country.

Then there is the "realistic" way:
We are enemies, and we will fight each other. Now they can gain on our loss by keeping 37% of the island, when we find the chance we will return the "favor" and so on and so forth.

What is for sure is that the balance of power does change. It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when.

All I can say now is that there will never be peace until our land is return to us. Beyond that how the cold/hot wars will go nobody can predict. What I know is that if we are forced to follow the "realistic" way, we should do it in the best way we can.

I have nothing against anybody because of his race/religion or anything else. If however a certain group of people treats me with disrespect, then they should expect the worst from me in return as well.
In fact I am very sorry that I have to do it in that way because I have friends from all over the world and never had any problems with any of them. It is sad that I am forced to see in a different way the TCs and Turks. But I have no choice, as they choose to be our enemies and most of them support crimes and illegalities against us.
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Postby eracles » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:36 pm

But what if society, either Turkish or Greek doesn't have the will. The Turkish Cypriots are quite happy to use and be used by mainland Turkey to achieve their aims of staying apart from the evil Turk eating GCs. They have a pretty good deal now, with extra bonus stolen greek land to profit off. Plus a load of settlers who quite like the status quo.
How can there be political will without any will from their electorate?
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Postby zan » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:55 pm

Kolokotronis, the gunshot and the new president
By Nicos A Rolandis

IN MAY 1978, I visited Chicago with President Kyprianou, on the occasion of the First United Nations Special Session on Disarmament, which took us to New York. During our stay in Chicago, the Greek-American Community celebrated the Greek national day of March 25 (the date is usually deferred by a month or two in the United States due to weather conditions). So we marched to the wooden stand for the dignitaries and a grandiose parade commenced. A chariot was in the parade with an old manly figure, Greek 1821 Revolution hero Kolokotronis, straddling a wooden horse. Then, all of a sudden, we heard a gunshot. Pandemonium ensued. American security men jumped and pushed President Kyprianou, myself and Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis to the floor in order to protect us.

We were informed later that Kolokotronis was the one who shot in the air, to convey to us the message – four years after the Turkish invasion – that Cypriots should follow the example of the Greeks in the 1821 revolution and fight to liberate their country…

Almost 30 years have elapsed since then and Cyprus sinks gradually but steadily into the oblivion of partition. During all these years we had among us some “military Kolokotronei” and a large number of “political Kolokotronei”,
people who pursued an obstinate, unwaveringly monolithic, inflexible, arrogant and supposedly demanding policy. They all failed. The venerable Kolokotronis belongs to another era – but even in his days results were brought about through the intervention of substantial foreign forces.

So, what about today? How should the President who will be elected or re-elected in 2008 behave? What sort of costume should he wear? How will he manage to rid Cyprus of the scourge of partition, which, during the past four years, was rooted deep into the soil of Cyprus?

1. The new President should look forward to a brief term of office, during which he should do his utmost to resolve the problem of Cyprus, so that the government of a federally united country may take over. If he and his entourage envision, from the very outset, a full five-year term and the cornucopia which goes with power, then, until the year 2013, the cycle of partition will be brought to completion.
2.
3. The new President should know that the solution of the Cyprus problem will entail difficult and probably tragic moments for himself. No solution means no problem at present – the tempest will follow in the future. In contrast, a solution – on account of the so many sins committed in the past – will have a bitter taste.
4. He will have to give the correct guidelines to the people, so that the blunders of the past will not be repeated. The past decisions of the people of Cyprus were not always characterised by prudence and consistency. In 1950 the people, guided by their leaders, decided in a referendum by a 95.7 per cent majority to seek union with Greece. Ten years later, the same people scuttled “union” through the London-Zurich Agreements and the Constitution of 1960. In 1963 Makarios and his aides (the incumbent President was one of them) endeavoured, based on Makarios’ 97 per cent rate of acceptance, radically to amend the Constitution. They failed. Then, 42 years later, Tassos Papadopoulos realised and confessed that after all the 1960 Constitution was not so bad! In the year 2004 the people, guided again by their leaders (AKEL, the governing coalition’s major partner charged that there was a brainwashing of the people) dumped by 76 per cent the United Nations Peace Plan. Some day – I do not know when- the people will realise that they were once again wrong. The new President should therefore be strong and resilient, he should offer the correct guidance and accept responsibility for the solution.
5. The new President should know that many political parties will not be helpful in his quest for a solution. Thirty-three years after the Turkish occupation these parties still continue harping on the same silly slogans which they have been using since the date when they came into being. As an example, political leaders invoke the UN resolutions for a solution and in parallel the same leaders reject UN peace initiatives for such a solution!
6. He has to be prudent and moderate. Nationalists and fanatics cannot address bicommunal or multicommunal issues. They lead to confrontation. He must be fair and objective. He must recognise that we are also debited with sins (as are the Turkish Cypriots) and he must be prepared to pay the price for these sins of ours. He must also know that a bicommural, bizonal federation for which we have signed both in the red ink of Makarios and in the blue ink of other Presidents, entails a number of substantive rights for the Turkish Cypriot community, which should not and cannot be overlooked.
7. The new President will have to upgrade radically our relations with Europe, where we are today seen as the black sheep of the family. We are also isolated on cardinal issues – our 26 partners (including Greece in some cases) are not in tandem with us. Furthermore, he must cease to speculate that we may exercise pressure on Turkey in the years 2020-2025, when Turkey may accede to Europe. We are already well conversant with the stance of Europe towards us on Turkish affairs. And by the year 2020 there will be no Cyprus problem – there will be final partition.
8. He must manage to walk through the gates of Washington DC, which remain firmly closed for the President of the Republic of Cyprus for the past four years. He must also gain better access to the family of the United Nations, whose 192 members, through the Security Council where they are all represented, adopt resolutions which are not palatable to us.
9. The new President must always remember that our sovereignty and state entity do not permanently belong to us. They may fade out in the dust of history. Sovereignty is formulated by the recognition conferred on us by the other 191 states of the world. If such recognition is withdrawn or if it is transferred elsewhere then our sovereignty will evaporate (It has happened in the past in the cases of Taiwan, Cambodia and Chad).
10. The new President must have full cognizance of the cautious and flexible handling needed in regard to the political, strategic, economic and oil interests of the mighty countries of the world. If he has the illusion that he will correct or change the world, if he does not realise that Cyprus does not appear on many world maps, not even as a small speck, he will never manage to keep the balances which are a prerequisite for the survival of our country.
11. Last but not least the New President must extend a hand of friendship to the Turkish Cypriots and to their leaders, even if such leaders will have to reach an understanding with Ankara in connection with the solution of our problem (After all, we as well, will have to reach an understanding with Greece). If the new President really wishes to end up with a united country, such a move is mandatory. If, on the contrary, each side insists on its own positions to the bitter end, if we continue pulling Cyprus until we tear it apart, we shall eventually cry over a lost country.

I still remember the rifle of ‘Kolokotronis’, the security men who were catapulted, believing that President Kyprianou might have been hit and who told us later that, had they realised that Kolokotronis had used his rifle, they would have shot him dead. And I believe that the political mentality which caused the above incident, might lead to the “assassination” not of a President but of our country and the whole of her people.
NICOS A. ROLANDIS
POLITICAL BUREAU


As I have said before not all GCs are as pathetic as Pyro and Piratis with their blue berets looking for war.
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Postby eracles » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:08 pm

I don't hink pyro was looking for war, the cyprus problem just becomes so extremely frustrating sometimes that people feel the need to give vent! Sorry Pyro if this is not the case, but I could have written the same post though I wouldn't really have meant it. :)
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:44 pm

Ho he means it alright, his real and true intentions have surfaced. He not willing to compromise or negotiate any longer he wants to force his demands on a people whom he obviously hates and wants to destroy through war be it economical or in battle, his comment about guns and make no mistake the GCs have plenty of arms to kill many many people. Its easier to clame the war machine on the other side when you want to divert the attention of the world.
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Postby Piratis » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:05 pm

What we have today is a cease fire to the war that Turkey started in 1974 by invading Cyprus. We don't want war but thats what we have since since 1974 . Those that want war are those that insist in violating the sovereignty of Republic of Cyprus.

We are therefore forced to fight this war and as I said before the one and only way this war will end is if the occupation ends and our land is returned. Those that expect that this war can end with our capitulation and our acceptance of the the crimes and illegalities they forced on us with their war, should just forget about it as this will not happen.

If they choose to be our enemies they should know that we will fight them until the end.
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Postby MR-from-NG » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:18 pm

5643 posts, each and every one total crap. I wish you'd give it a rest Piratis.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:30 pm

Just look at the most extreme partitionists of the forum:

a)Zan quoting us an article by some GC loser, who in essense asks the GCs to capitulate. Rolandis did not dare mention to what degree we should capitulate, but I am sure the vivid imagination of Zan has already worked it out. Just by hearing a GC loser telling him partition will be a fact in 2013, and the RoC will lose recognition was enough for Zan to go drown himself inside a rosewater pool.

b)The much wittier partitionist Viewpoint: The GCs don’t want to compromise he says. (compromise to their partition dreams that is) . We want to force our demands on them he says (Our demand being to get back our stolen lands and homes. Wow!) We want to destroy them economically he says… He also said something about war and guns, well let the poor man see as many things in his imagination as he likes, they are tax free.

Yes VP you are indeed much cleverer than Zan. We should want to destroy you economically. Do you have a problem?

UNTIL YOU ROT.
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